A.W. Tozer on the JSOC and Outer Darkness

[Hope of Glory]

But if anyone preach any other gospel than THE gospel, let them be accursed.

I know you're not a big fan of Scriptures, since you avoid posting them, but let's take a look at this one that you keep mentioning:

Galatians 1:8: "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed."

Other than that which we have preached.

Paul preached the gospel of salvation, the gospel of the Kingdom, his gospel.

Roman Catholic interpreters insist that "par" should be rendered "contrary to", though the Vulgate gives "praeterquam" (besides). Some Protestant interpreters insist on "besides" as being against supplementing the gospel with traditions.

There is nothing in the gospel of the Kingdom that is contrary to the gospel of salvation. (If there were, Jesus and John would not have been preaching it.) It all complements the complete gospel. The foundation for the gospel of the Kingdom is the gospel of grace and the cross and the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus the Christ, and the security of the saved person.

If "you can be saved!" Isn't good news, I don't know what is. If "you can be saved and you can't lose that salvation!" isn't good news, I don't know what is. Two different, but related messages, both good news, and both contained in the good news of salvation; neither contrary to the other or to Scriptures.

 

[Amy.G]

I know you're not a big fan of Scriptures, since you avoid posting them, but let's take a look at this one that you keep mentioning:

That is an outright lie. NP has posted tons of scripture as have I and others.

Galatians 1:8: "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed."

Other than that which we have preached.

Paul preached the gospel of salvation, the gospel of the Kingdom, his gospel.

Yes, Paul preached the gospel of salvation....by grace, through faith, not of works. That is his gospel. The only one. Anyone who preaches any other gospel is to be accursed.

There is nothing in the gospel of the Kingdom that is contrary to the gospel of salvation. (If there were, Jesus and John would not have been preaching it.) It all complements the complete gospel.

The kingdom "gospel" is most assurredly contrary to the gospel of grace in that it requires 2 payments for sin. One by Christ, one by you.

If "you can be saved!" Isn't good news, I don't know what is. If "you can be saved and you can't lose that salvation!" isn't good news, I don't know what is. Two different, but related messages, both good news, and both contained in the good news of salvation; neither contrary to the other or to Scriptures

There is NO good news in the gospel of 1000 years of torment.

 

[npetreley]

Yes, Paul preached the gospel of salvation....by grace, through faith, not of works. That is his gospel. The only one. Anyone who preaches any other gospel is to be accursed.

The kingdom "gospel" is most assurredly contrary to the gospel of grace in that it requires 2 payments for sin. One by Christ, one by you.

There is NO good news in the gospel of 1000 years of torment.

Amen, Amy. I'm glad you're here.

 

[James_Newman]

That is an outright lie. NP has posted tons of scripture as have I and others.
Yes, Paul preached the gospel of salvation....by grace, through faith, not of works. That is his gospel. The only one. Anyone who preaches any other gospel is to be accursed.

The kingdom "gospel" is most assurredly contrary to the gospel of grace in that it requires 2 payments for sin. One by Christ, one by you.

There is NO good news in the gospel of 1000 years of torment.

You must be one of those 'glass is half empty' kind of folks. I'm sure that an unbeliever could say the same thing of your 'gospel of eternal damnation'.

 

[Amy.G]

You must be one of those 'glass is half empty' kind of folks. I'm sure that an unbeliever could say the same thing of your 'gospel of eternal damnation'.

It doesn't matter what the unbeliever says. The are condemned by their own unbelief.
I don't know of a gospel of eternal damnation. That would not be good news, since the word "gospel" means good news.
You guys are getting sloppy on your Greek! :laugh:

 

[npetreley]

You must be one of those 'glass is half empty' kind of folks. I'm sure that an unbeliever could say the same thing of your 'gospel of eternal damnation'.

It's not a matter of glass half full or empty. You ME folks keep ignoring the fact that you teach multiple gospels. Some of you think you're clever by saying it's multiple aspects of a single gospel, but the aspects are contradictory, so it's just blowing smoke.

As long as you want to wave the warning of 1,000 years in hell, it doesn't matter if you paint it as good news or bad news. I'll continue to wave the warning that if you try to teach any other gospel than THE gospel, you should be accursed.

 

[J.D.]

You must be one of those 'glass is half empty' kind of folks. I'm sure that an unbeliever could say the same thing of your 'gospel of eternal damnation'.

Actually, there is no good news in the Gospel for the UNBELIEVER.

 

[npetreley]

Actually, there is no good news in the Gospel for the UNBELIEVER.

Excellent point. That's yet another problem with the "gospel of the kingdom" as taught by ME. It's (potentially) bad news for those in Christ, meaning it's no gospel at all.

 

[James_Newman]

Actually, there is no good news in the Gospel for the UNBELIEVER.

Thank you JD. Just the same, there is no good news in the gospel of the kingdom for believers who do not want to repent of their pet sins. Take a look at the rich young ruler, and notice that Christs words caused him to be sad. A very strange reaction to the good news that all he had to do was give up his riches...

 

[J.D.]

Excellent point. That's yet another problem with the "gospel of the kingdom" as taught by ME. It's (potentially) bad news for those in Christ, meaning it's no gospel at all.

Exactly. Just who is adding works to faith for salvation? Is it those that say that fruits are the result of salvation, or those that say that fruits result in (kingdom) salvation?

 

[Hope of Glory]

Thank you JD. Just the same, there is no good news in the gospel of the kingdom for believers who do not want to repent of their pet sins. Take a look at the rich young ruler, and notice that Christs words caused him to be sad. A very strange reaction to the good news that all he had to do was give up his riches...

Even if people mistakenly apply this story to getting saved, it's still not "good news" for the rich young ruler.

So, is it good news or not?

 

[J.D.]

Thank you JD. Just the same, there is no good news in the gospel of the kingdom for believers who do not want to repent of their pet sins. Take a look at the rich young ruler, and notice that Christs words caused him to be sad. A very strange reaction to the good news that all he had to do was give up his riches...

"The spirit lusts against the flesh, and the flesh against the spirit, so that ye can not do the things that you would." "Now if any man has not the spirit of Christ, he is none of his".

I have pet sins. And I'm easily beset by them. But I do want to repent and forsake them.

 

[James_Newman]

"The spirit lusts against the flesh, and the flesh against the spirit, so that ye can not do the things that you would." "Now if any man has not the spirit of Christ, he is none of his".

I have pet sins. And I'm easily beset by them. But I do want to repent and forsake them.

I have good news. The bible says you can, and if you do you will reign with Christ.

 

[npetreley]

"The spirit lusts against the flesh, and the flesh against the spirit, so that ye can not do the things that you would." "Now if any man has not the spirit of Christ, he is none of his".

I have pet sins. And I'm easily beset by them. But I do want to repent and forsake them.

Why do you want to repent and forsake them? Is it because you fear 1,000 years in hell? Or because Jesus live in you?

It's a rhetorical question.

 

[Accountable]

The kingdom "gospel" is most assurredly contrary to the gospel of grace in that it requires 2 payments for sin. One by Christ, one by you..

You call it sin. We call it bad works. If there is a difference, tell us what is the payment for bad works? Another way to put it is: If there is reward for good works, what is the consequences of bad works?

There is NO good news in the gospel of 1000 years of torment.

1. There is EXTREMELY GOOD NEWS in the gospel of the opportunity to runthe race to recieve the prize, which is not salvation by grace, it is a gift, but rather it is the prize of a crown and authority in His Kingdom. That is wonderfuil news.

To use your own systematic method to obtain a hypothises, my I share this.

You say there bad news is a part of the Good news of the Kingdom.
There is also bad news when we deal with the good news of grace.
If you refuse the gospel of grace the BAD NEWS is eternity without Christ.
If you refuse the gospel of the Kingdom the BAD NEWS is 1000 years in Outer Darkness.

We believe both. But to compare, rejecting the Gospel of Grace carries far more recompense than does the rejection of the Gospel of the Kingdom.

I pray you see the point I am trying to make.

 

[npetreley]

I have good news. The bible says you can, and if you do you will reign with Christ.

I have even better news. He is motivated to do so because Jesus lives in him. And even if he fails, he has nothing to fear, because fear has to do with punishment -- and there is no coming punishment for believers.

You can work all you want motivated by fear and the desire for power. You're setting yourself up for a big fall, but that's your problem.

 

[Accountable]

Actually, Hockey Mask Guy Jump, the motivation of the Pharisees is not unlike the motivation of the ME folks. Both of you seem to be offended by the cross and grace, and feel you have to add works to the gospel in order for it to be meaningful. So if anyone fits the shoe of the Pharisees, it's you MEers.

If there be even one Kingdom Believer here who preaches the harasee that this man claims, let him stand for and be marked far away from us.

Npetreley, (I choose to to demean you by changing the name you choose to use)
Why would you stoop to spreading such a lie? Not onced have I ever seen a ME believer take anything away from the simple grace that has been extended to us. It is by the grace of God through the finished work at Calvary that we have eternal life. You act like there is no prize set before us. I do not understand why you choose not to run the race that has been set before you. You claim to be Calvinist so I would hopefule be assured that you do not believe that the prize spoken of in the Epistles is Salvation by Grace. A prize must be one. You do not believe tyhat you work to be born from above and neither do we. So hopefully we agree on this much. We cannot work for spiritual salvation. So if this is true, what is your prize? Why will you recieve a crown?

Again I ask, what is THE PRIZE?

 

[Accountable]

I have even better news. He is motivated to do so because Jesus lives in him. And even if he fails, he has nothing to fear, because fear has to do with punishment -- and there is no coming punishment for believers.

You can work all you want motivated by fear and the desire for power. You're setting yourself up for a big fall, but that's your problem.

Why do you call them believers? I thought you were Calvinist. To your theology, would it not be more correct to say the elect since belief is a work?

 

[James_Newman]

I have even better news. He is motivated to do so because Jesus lives in him. And even if he fails, he has nothing to fear, because fear has to do with punishment -- and there is no coming punishment for believers.

You can work all you want motivated by fear and the desire for power. You're setting yourself up for a big fall, but that's your problem.

Colossians 3:23-25
23 And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;
24 Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance; for ye serve the Lord Christ.
25 But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done; and there is no respect of persons.

I don't think you are intentionally trying to deceive folks, brother, but to say there is no punishment for believers is a lie from the pit of hell.

 

[npetreley]

Again I ask, what is THE PRIZE?

14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.

Heavenward? But I thought you said the prize was ruling with Christ on earth for 1,000 years? Whoops. Somebody is wrong. I'll go with scripture, thanks.