A.W. Tozer on the JSOC and Outer Darkness

[npetreley]

Why do you call them believers? I thought you were Calvinist. To your theology, would it not be more correct to say the elect since belief is a work?

I have no idea what you're talking about. Belief is not a work.

 

[npetreley]

I don't think you are intentionally trying to deceive folks, brother, but to say there is no punishment for believers is a lie from the pit of hell.

No, it's a truth from scripture.

God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him. 17 In this way, love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment, because in this world we are like him. 18 There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus

31What, then, shall we say in response to this? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? 33Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. 35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36As it is written:
"For your sake we face death all day long;
we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered." 37No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

You are the one spreading lies. Indeed, Paul says that for doing so, you should be accursed.

 

[James_Newman]

Heavenward? But I thought you said the prize was ruling with Christ on earth for 1,000 years? Whoops. Somebody is wrong. I'll go with scripture, thanks.

Somebody is wrong. I think it's your bible.
Philippians 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

Does that verse you quoted say Paul is working his way to heaven?

 

[James_Newman]

No, it's a truth from scripture.




You are the one spreading lies. Indeed, Paul says that for doing so, you should be accursed.

But you say I can't be accursed so I don't know why that should frighten me. I think your bible is missing some words here too.

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

 

[Accountable]

Heavenward? But I thought you said the prize was ruling with Christ on earth for 1,000 years? Whoops. Somebody is wrong. I'll go with scripture, thanks.

If you will do a simple study of scripture you will see that the Kingdom we seek is the Kingdom of Heaven! The authority of the Brise with Christ shall have dominion over the Earth.
Also a simple reading of the AV scripture you quoted should clear up your misconceptions.

 

[Hope of Glory]

It seems that according to some, the "good news" is that you can do whatever you want to with no accountability, as long as you've accepted the offer of spiritual salvation.

Well, if it were true, that would certainly be "good news" to some, and there are many churches that teach that once you're saved, it doesn't matter what you do, because all that will happen is that you won't have as many crowns as the next guy, and that if you're too bad, you might get a good scolding.

 

[Accountable]

I have no idea what you're talking about. Belief is not a work.

I totaly agree. Since it is not a work, is it a requirement?

 

[npetreley]

But you say I can't be accursed so I don't know why that should frighten me.

I don't know if you can or not because I don't know if you're lost or just a wayward believer. Given your obsession with works, you sure sound like a person who will tell Jesus, "But look at all the good stuff I did in your name!" After which he will say, "Depart from me, I never knew you." I hope I'm wrong. Even if the worst is true, there's still time to repent of your preaching of different gospels.

 

[Accountable]

Dear full council Believers,
I have a lot to do today. I will be proclaiming the The good news of grace ad the good news of the Kingdom in a village tonight. Pray that many will here the truth tonight! I am praying for you.

 

[James_Newman]

I don't know if you can or not because I don't know if you're lost or just a wayward believer. Given your obsession with works, you sure sound like a person who will tell Jesus, "But look at all the good stuff I did in your name!" After which he will say, "Depart from me, I never knew you." I hope I'm wrong. Even if the worst is true, there's still time to repent of your preaching of different gospels.

Oh, I see. Now I may not be saved, even though I confess that I believe the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the living God died on a cross to pay for my sins? Or maybe that is not how a person gets saved in your theology. I thought grace meant I didn't have to do anything.

 

[npetreley]

Oh, I see. Now I may not be saved, even though I confess that I believe the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the living God died on a cross to pay for my sins?

Then why aren't those people who say, "Lord, Lord" saved? They claim to believe in the Lord Jesus. They even did good works in His name.

 

[James_Newman]

Then why aren't those people who say, "Lord, Lord" saved? They claim to believe in the Lord Jesus. They even did good works in His name.

If you had been paying attention to what we are saying you would know that I believe those people are saved, they are being cast out of the kingdom.

Matthew 7:21-22
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

I think recently we had quite a discussion on this very scripture.

 

[TCGreek]

If you had been paying attention to what we are saying you would know that I believe those people are saved, they are being cast out of the kingdom.

Matthew 7:21-22
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

I think recently we had quite a discussion on this very scripture.

Then Jesus goes on to say, "I never knew you."

 

[npetreley]

If you had been paying attention to what we are saying you would know that I believe those people are saved, they are being cast out of the kingdom.

Well, no duh, of course you think they're saved. If you think that they must be saved because it's what you believe, there's a term for that. It's called insanity. "I never knew you" says to me they're usaved, especially in view of "Those He foreknew..."

 

[James_Newman]

Then Jesus goes on to say, "I never knew you."

Yep. He does.

 

[James_Newman]

Well, no duh, of course you think they're saved. If you think that they must be saved because it's what you believe, there's a term for that. It's called insanity. "I never knew you" says to me they're usaved, especially in view of "Those He foreknew..."

I think they must be saved because they believe on the Lord, which is the same reason I think I must be saved and you as well. If they forgot part of the secret formula for salvation, I hope you or I didn't forget it as well. I never knew you is refering to the intimate knowledge that comes from walking in fellowship with Christ, not being saved.

 

[Amy.G]

James Newman:

You must be one of those 'glass is half empty' kind of folks. I'm sure that an unbeliever could say the same thing of your 'gospel of eternal damnation'.

J.D.:

Actually, there is no good news in the Gospel for the UNBELIEVER.

J.D., this was not my post. I don't know how my name got on it. It was posted by James Newman.

 

[npetreley]

I think they must be saved because they believe on the Lord, which is the same reason I think I must be saved and you as well.

Well, there you go! We're betting on two different horses. We'll see if we wave to each other from the same place or across a chasm.

 

[James_Newman]

Well, there you go! We're betting on two different horses. We'll see if we wave to each other from the same place or across a chasm.

I think we are betting on two different horses. I'm betting that I am saved because Christ died for my sins. You're betting that Christ died for your sins because you think you're saved.

 

[npetreley]

I think we are betting on two different horses. I'm betting that I am saved because Christ died for my sins. Your betting that Christ died for your sins because you think your saved.

Well, we're not going to get anywhere. After all, I'm arguing with a guy who thinks the definition of "eternity" means John 3:16 amounts to, "shall not perish, but have 1,000 years of life that is so boring it will seem like an eternity". (That is, after all, one of the ways you "prove" that "eternity" can mean a fixed amount of time.)