A Whale of a Translation

[RaptureReady]

Originally posted by Pastor Larry:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by HomeBound:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Pastor Larry:
They are confused because this is never taught from Scripture,

And what your teaching is? </font>[/QUOTE]Yes, it is. I and others have repeatedly shown your from God's word that things other than the KJV can rightly be called the word of God and should be treated as authoritatively. If you have read along here, you should have known this already. The Bible never teaches that only the KJV is the word of God. The Bible never teaches that only one Greek manuscript is the word of God. Your side has backed up this assertion by repeated failure to show from the Bible (our final authority) that the KJV is the only word of God. In contrast, we have repeatedly shown you where Christ and the apostles quoted from things other than the KJV. We have shown you where the Bible affirms that things other than the KJV are the word of God. About this teaching there can be no legitimate question. To question it is to show a complete and obvious disregard for the authority of Scripture. </font>[/QUOTE]Pastor Larry, going along with your reasoning, the Bible doesn't even say Bible. Just because some new MSS pops up does not mean that it is the word of God. Don't get me wrong, I believe that some of the new versions contain the word of God, but they do not hold the power and conviction that the King James Bible does.

 

[Forever settled in heaven]

hey, does anyone remember the KJBO BUILT-IN DICTIONARY THEORY?

remember those testimonials fr five-yr-olds n gaolbirds learning to read in English by using a KJB?

in Jonah: Fish

in Matthew: Whale

the "built-in dictionary" therefore defines FISH as WHALES. according to KJBOism's methods, God created Great Whales (Gen 1:21), a variety of which r Fish (as in Jonah), but all fish r whales (as Matthew so cleverly identifies).

 

[Pastor Larry]

Originally posted by HomeBound:
Pastor Larry, going along with your reasoning, the Bible doesn't even say Bible.

So what?? This is off topic.
The Bible teaches things about itself. That is where we get our doctrine of bibliology from. The KJVO does not its teaching from Scripture. THat is the difference between your position and mine.

Just because some new MSS pops up does not mean that it is the word of God.

I agree, but the fact that they just popped up does not mean that they are not the word of God.

Don't get me wrong, I believe that some of the new versions contain the word of God, but they do not hold the power and conviction that the King James Bible does.

You are wrong on this point. And judging by "power" (whatever that means) is not a good standard of judgment. We are to judge by faithfulness to the Greek texts, not by "power." I guarantee you that the KJV has no power in countries that do not speak 1611 English. That is why, in so many places in America, the KJV is not buidling churches and building believers.

 

[Daniel Dunivan]

going along with your reasoning, the Bible doesn't even say Bible

Oh, but it does! The word Bible comes from the Greek word biblion (book). Thus, The Holy Bible is The Holy Book! Though I don't hold to an inerrant Bible, I would say that the Bible teaches at least some things about itself (inspiried, true testimony, etc.)--though I'm sure that Pastor Larry sees much more contained therein than I.

Grace and Peace, Danny

 

[swordsman]

Originally posted by Pastor Larry:

Originally posted by HomeBound:
Pastor Larry, going along with your reasoning, the Bible doesn't even say Bible.

So what?? This is off topic.
The Bible teaches things about itself. That is where we get our doctrine of bibliology from. The KJVO does not its teaching from Scripture. THat is the difference between your position and mine.

[qb We are to judge by faithfulness to the Greek texts, not by "power." I guarantee you that the KJV has no power in countries that do not speak 1611 English. That is why, in so many places in America, the KJV is not buidling churches and building believers.

We are not to judge by the faithfulness to any greek text. God has seen fit in his wisdom to BLESS the use of one book and one book alone to the english speaking people, the Authorized Version.
Christianity today is generally carnal and very very lukewarm and I firmly believe that all these new and improved bibles are the reason for it.
laodicean is as laodicean does...

 

[Pastor Larry]

Originally posted by swordsman:
We are not to judge by the faithfulness to any greek text.

Why not? How else will you know what to translate?? YOu think the KJV translators just pulled this out of thin air??? Of course not. They translated a Greek text.

God has seen fit in his wisdom to BLESS the use of one book and one book alone to the english speaking people, the Authorized Version.

This is manifestly untrue. I have seen more people saved and discipled in my ministry since I switched to modern versions than I did under the KJV. Virtually all evangelicals who use modern versions would say the same thing. The reality is that you are simply showing that you have no idea what you are talking about. God used English Bibles long before the KJV and will use them long after should the Lord tarry. Even in our own time, God mightily uses modern versions. You should use one. You would probably find your own life changed very much for the better. You would lose your antagonism towards God's word if nothing else.

Christianity today is generally carnal and very very lukewarm and I firmly believe that all these new and improved bibles are the reason for it.
laodicean is as laodicean does...

If your Christianity is lukewarm then you need to find new friends. The modern versions have nothing to do with it. Among the people that I know, I find the users of modern versions much more godly and energetic about their faith. They worship with a greater passion and are much more knowledgeable about their faith. They love and understand the word of God and share it with their friends. The times that I spent in a KJVO church was the exact opposite.

Laodicea in the book of Revelation has nothing to do with Bible versions or church ages. That is bad exegesis and bad application. The problem in the Laodicean church was not their Bible; it was their actions. Again, you show a tragic disregard for Scripture to use it in the manner that you have here. Besides that, you have failed yet again to use Scripture to support your position. When will you learn??

 

[swordsman]

Pastor Larry,
For the record my Christianity is anything but lukewarm. Nor is my friends.
I have seen personally the modern version users and they do seem to have one thing in common.
Monday through Saturday they look,act and talk just like the world.PERIOD
They can talk of how much they love God and how "awesome" He is but it does not seem to go any further than that.
Just what city is your church? With all the..as you say...

"I find the users of modern versions much more godly and energetic about their faith. They worship with a greater passion and are much more knowledgeable about their faith. They love and understand the word of God and share it with their friends."(end quote)


They must be making a HUGE difference in that city. I would really like to see the fruit.
When the KJV was considered the only Word that was the Word there was fruit everywhere,Great revivals, whole cities changed.

Now you say that people are closer to God than ever and I say the average Christian today is an undercover Christian at best.
Well you must be right.. anyone can see this country is growing closer to God each and every day, wow!!

 

[Askjo]

Originally posted by HomeBound:
Don't get me wrong, I believe that some of the new versions contain the word of God, but they do not hold the power and conviction that the King James Bible does.

True, modern versions affect Christians' life -- more "lax" moral life! Do you notice that?

 

[HankD]

True, modern versions affect Christians' life -- more "lax" moral life! Do you notice that?

Please! The KJVO leadership is without sin?

HankD

 

[Askjo]

Originally posted by Pastor Larry:
We are to judge by faithfulness to the Greek texts, not by "power."

I believe your statement above is incorrect because naturalistic scholars are not 100% faithful to the words what they translated from Greek texts. That is 2 Cor. 2:17.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Originally posted by swordsman:
For the record my Christianity is anything but lukewarm. Nor is my friends.
I have seen personally the modern version users and they do seem to have one thing in common.
Monday through Saturday they look,act and talk just like the world.PERIOD
They can talk of how much they love God and how "awesome" He is but it does not seem to go any further than that.

You are the one who said that Christianity was lukewarm so I suggested you change your life. Mine is not and many of the users of modern versions that I know are not. You are speaking about something you cannot possibly know about. I can tell you from my own personal experience that the KJVO people I have been associated with were exactly what you describe here -- lukewarm, uncaring, lax morally, etc. I can tell your from personal experience that the MV users I know of are not that way. There are exceptions.

I do agree that a great part of Christianity is lukewarm. But I can assure you it has nothing to do with modern versions. Just look at church history. There have always been lukewarm Christians.

When the KJV was considered the only Word that was the Word there was fruit everywhere,Great revivals, whole cities changed.

The KJV was not considered the only word of God until relatively recently by a fringe group of people. The great revivals were the work fo the Spirit, not the work of a versions. There is still fruit everywhere and it, like those revivals, is the work of the Spirit. It has nothing to do with with version you use.

Now you say that people are closer to God than ever and I say the average Christian today is an undercover Christian at best.

I was referring to some people. I cannot comment on everybody because I simply don't know. You cannot comment on everybody becasue you do not know. The sooner you admit this, the sooner you will stop making these ridiculous accusations.

Well you must be right.. anyone can see this country is growing closer to God each and every day, wow!!

I didn't say that. You are making stuff up still.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Originally posted by Askjo:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by HomeBound:
Don't get me wrong, I believe that some of the new versions contain the word of God, but they do not hold the power and conviction that the King James Bible does.

True, modern versions affect Christians' life -- more "lax" moral life! Do you notice that? </font>[/QUOTE]I haven't noticed that that has anything to do with modern versions. You are making this up. You cannot show one bit of proof that this has anything to do with modern versions. You cannot even show a correlation here.

 

[Askjo]

Originally posted by swordsman:
Christianity today is generally carnal and very very lukewarm and I firmly believe that all these new and improved bibles are the reason for it.

Correct!

We recongnize this problem that Christians has today -- more modern versions -- more "lax" moral life!

Pray for them!

 

[swordsman]

Originally posted by Pastor Larry:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Askjo:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by HomeBound:
Don't get me wrong, I believe that some of the new versions contain the word of God, but they do not hold the power and conviction that the King James Bible does.

True, modern versions affect Christians' life -- more "lax" moral life! Do you notice that? </font>[/QUOTE]I haven't noticed that that has anything to do with modern versions. You are making this up. You cannot show one bit of proof that this has anything to do with modern versions. You cannot even show a correlation here. </font>[/QUOTE]Well if it is not the modern versions and these versions are bringing so many closer to God. What is it?

 

[Pastor Larry]

Originally posted by Askjo:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Pastor Larry:
We are to judge by faithfulness to the Greek texts, not by "power."

I believe your statement above is incorrect because naturalistic scholars are not 100% faithful to the words what they translated from Greek texts. That is 2 Cor. 2:17. </font>[/QUOTE]Notice how inconsistent and unthinking you are. You use my statement as the basis to refute it. You say that we should not use fidelity to the Greek texts to judge translations because some have not been faithful to the words translated from teh Greek texts. How did you know they weren't faithful unless you judged them by my standard??

The problem with the KJVO is that a bunch of mindless nonthinkers repeat stuff that false teachers have told them rather than thinking through and actually studying the word of God. Proof positive is that you once again misuse 1 Cor 2:17. When will you stop abusing Scripture?? It is time to get past this issue and accept what the word of God says as true. What you believe is irrelevant. For you to believe that I am wrong makes no difference. The only thing that matters is the truth which comes from God's word. I can show my position from the truth of God's word. You cannot show your position. Your belief is what needs to change, not the word.

 

[Askjo]

Originally posted by HankD:
Please! The KJVO leadership is without sin?

HankD [/QB]

All of them including you and me are being human.

 

[Psalm145 3]

This is from a tract by Terry Watkins called NKJV Counterfeit.

Matthew 12:40: change "whale" to "fish" (ditto NIV) I don't guess it matters (what's the truth got to do with it?), the Greek word used in Matthew 12:40 is ketos. The scientific study of whales just happens to be - CETOLOGY - from the Greek ketos for whale and logos for study! The scientific name for whales just happens to be - CETACEANS - from the Greek ketos for whale!

http://www.av1611.org/nkjv.html

 

[Ransom]

Well, thanks to Psa 145 3, it looks like I can add the root fallacy to my catalogue of KJV-only sophistry.

 

[HankD]

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by HankD:
Please! The KJVO leadership is without sin?

HankD

All of them including you and me are being human. </font>[/QUOTE]Good answer.

So we can agree that whether we use the KJV or the NIV our walk with the Lord depends on our will rather than the version of the Bible we use.

KJV John 14
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

NIV John 14
23 Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
24 He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

There is not a "whale" of a difference between the meanings of the passages above.

The end result is the same.

HankD

 

[Anti-Alexandrian]

The problem with the KJVO is that a bunch of mindless nonthinkers repeat stuff that false teachers have told them rather than thinking through and actually studying the word of God.

LIE.You have no proof of such nonsense;who told YOU that?? Are you repeating what someone told you?? I bet you are...

How did you know they weren't faithful unless you judged them by my standard??

What standard?! Do you mean the over 200+ "bibles"(that conflict one another in THOUSANDS of places)that have their roots in the Jesuit-Egyptian manuscripts?

Proof positive is that you once again misuse 1 Cor 2:17.

You mean 2 Cor 2:17 dont you??

When will you stop abusing Scripture?? It is time to get past this issue and accept what the word of God says as true.

I do accept what scripture(KJB)says;it says that mans(and Satan's) ambition is to call to doubt and CORRUPT God's word;do you doubt this??? will you deny scripture(KJB)?