A Wideness In God's Mercy

[Mark Osgatharp]

It is written,

"There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world."

Now we can well concede that terms such as "all" and "every" are sometimes limited in their context and application. The Bible tells us as much when it says that when God subjected "all things" to man it is obviously excepted that God himself is not subject to man.

We must rely on context to tell us the extent of that "all" in any given text. And in the above text the "all" in the statement that "all men through him might believe" is clearly and unmistakeably defined. Let's read it again:

"That was that true Light which lighteth every man that cometh into the world."

Indeed it has been said by one of our own poets that,

"There is a wideness in God's mercy."

Amen and amen!

Mark Osgatharp

 

[prophecynut]

Would appreciate if you would give the verses you quote.

 

[2BHizown]

Most unfortunately the quote of "There is a wideness in God's mercy" is by Billy Graham who expressed this on Robert Schullers program, stating that lilely Muslims, cultists and others would be in heaven! All the wishing in the world wont make it so! The gait is narrow that leads into the kingdom and few there be that enter!
A more interesting and truthful quote is this one:
As Spurgeon put it- We all predestine our own damnation, but it is only by electing love any of us are saved.

 

[prophecynut]

I found the verses, they are John 1:6-9.

"There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world."

"Might" - expresses a possibility contingent on God's will.

John 1:12-13
"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."

 

[webdog]

What is the difference between "will of the flesh" and "will of man"?
Also, "might" expresses a possibility contingent not on God's will, but mans. If it were contingent on God's, God failed.

 

[prophecynut]

The "will of the flesh" and "will of man" has no difference that's why the NIV has "nor of human decision or a husband's will."

"Might" or "may" gives permission to the believer.
God is the one who grants it.

If I'm a bouncer at the door of a night club and say to you, "you may enter," your entry is contingent on me and not you, the believer.

[ November 08, 2005, 02:10 PM: Message edited by: prophecynut ]

 

[whatever]

"There is a wideness in God's mercy."

Amen! And what depth too! God's mercy is so wide and so deep that He has accomplshed every single detail of our salvation. Can you imagine if He had left even the slightest detail up to us? I, for one, would have never been as merciful to myself as God is to me. And how many others would have been left out too! Praise Him!

 

[Mark Osgatharp]

Originally posted by 2BHizown:
Most unfortunately the quote of "There is a wideness in God's mercy" is by Billy Graham who expressed this on Robert Schullers program, stating that lilely Muslims, cultists and others would be in heaven! All the wishing in the world wont make it so! The gait is narrow that leads into the kingdom and few there be that enter!

.

Billy Graham may have used the quote, but it actually orignates from a song written in the 1800s. And you are right, the gate is narrow and few find it; but the invitation to enter the gate is to "every man that cometh into the world."

A more interesting and truthful quote is this one: As Spurgeon put it- We all predestine our own damnation, but it is only by electing love any of us are saved.

That sounds like some assinine statement a Calvinist would have made to smooth the plain implications of his doctrine over. How could we have predestinated our our damnation? That is not even a lucid, much less Scriptural, comment.

The fact is, if Calvinism is true it means God predestinated the damnation of the damned and no amount of duplicity will cover that ugly reality.

Mark Osgatharp

 

[2BHizown]

Who are you O man to reply back to God?

 

[Ray Berrian]

2BHizown,

You made this statement. 'As Spurgeon put it- We all predestine our own damnation, but it is only by electing love any of us are saved.'
_____________________________________________________

[Ray's Quote] A nice piece of fat that Spurgeon threw to some people who are gullible enough to believe such tripe. This statement by the preacher surely is not 'the meat' [Hebrews 5:12} of Gospel truth; in fact is an unintentional, fraudulent statement. He may have been the Prince of Preachers in his era of time, but surely was not blessed with skills in Biblical exegesis and application of Scripture toward the hearers of the message.

The perfect provision for eternal salvation was accomplished by Jesus on the Cross for all sinners. [I Timothy 2:6 & I John 2:2]. Believing and making a commitment through repentance is the defining moment that determines a person's destiny.

Did Jesus die as a 'ransom for all' or only for His hand picked elect? God speaking through the Apostle Paul indicates that Jesus' giving of Himself was for all human beings.

When all sinners stand before God to be judged they will be without excuse. [End Quote}.

 

[2BHizown]

You're on a wheel Ray and cant get off!
Same ole, same ole, same ole! Have you honestly kneeled and sincerely asked the Lord to guide you into His truth, only His truth, nothing else? Worked for me!!

 

[Ray Berrian]

No, look closer there is some spiritual 'meat' there for you if your spiritual system thrives on truth.

Give us your 'same ole' views on I Timothy 2:6 and I John 2:2. Really, we will listen. I know it is difficult to interpret these verse just as they were given by God through the Apostles Paul and John, and I do not mean John as in Calvin.

Enlighten us . . .

 

[prophecynut]

Compare 1 Tim. 2:3-4 in the KJV and the NIV:

KJV
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
4 Who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

According to the KJV, all men will be save by God regardless of what they think, no exceptions.

According to the NIV, God desires all men to be save which is not the same as what he wills. God desires the salvation of all people but the Bible indicates that God chooses some people to be saved and not all. As we see from 4:10, God "is the Savior of all men" overall and a special Savior "of those who believe."

Overall he is mediator between God and men but a special mediator of those who believe.

Overall he gave himself as a ransom for all men but is effective only for those who believe.

God does not save every person from eternal punishment, for such universalism would contradict the clear testimony of Scripture. God is, however, the Saviour of all in that salvation is available to all but given only to those who believe.

 

[Mark Osgatharp]

Originally posted by prophecynut:
Compare 1 Tim. 2:3-4 in the KJV and the NIV:

KJV
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
4 Who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

According to the KJV, all men will be save by God regardless of what they think, no exceptions.

According to the NIV, God desires all men to be save which is not the same as what he wills.

Obviously the word "will" in I Timothy 2 means that God wants all men to be saved (it is not a mistranslation, that is just what "will" means in that context).

So I see that you, as a Calvinist, are admitting that God doesn't always get what He wants, which must mean that God's will is sometimes trumped by man's will (only because God has sovreignly given man a choice in the matter).

Mark Osgatharp