A Woman's Place

I'll gladly pray for you. Like I said, you've got bigger issues than who gets to decide where you live. The fact that you can't come to agreement tells me the two of you need to work on your issues of why the two of you are unwilling to work as one.

 

JMSR, there will always be exceptions to normal conditions. In those cases, the husband's decision takes precedent.

It's as simple as that. However, remember that if the husband is being obnoxious or guiding her to anger in order to make a disagreement and get his own way by default, that is a sin and restoring harmony will be a long and painful process...and will be the man's own fault and responsibility.

For the women here, and Scarlett especially - since you sound so much like me and always have...the right man makes an UNBELIEVABLE difference. I almost make myself sick thinking of how much I've changed. LOL I never thought I'd remarry, but when you find the right person, it becomes a whole 'nother story. When considering the marriage I'm in now, I was totally against some things he brought up. Some were major. One of them was which state we would first move to. In the beginning my mind absolutely rebelled against where he was leaning towards, but my heart softened and the more I prayed, the more I felt led to agree with him. That was NOT me, that was the Holy Spirit. Of course my husband is VERY easy to follow, and I honestly believe he is a very rare find!

Point is...never say never. I did, and I was wrong. It's amazing how things can change! I've found that things I never would have thought twice about, let alone agreed to, became things I ended up WANTING. It's also more of a relief than I ever thought it would be to have the advice of another person. Before, I didn't want it and didn't think I needed it. It was MINE, and I ENJOYED it. I never expected to like, let alone be relieved, by having a partner.

Weird.

Just sayin'...you just may come on here all doe-eyed and giggly one day and I'm gonna be laughing my head off because that's what some people are doing to me now. :laugh::flower:

 

Where is that in scripture? It's not. What IS scripturally consistent is of if the wife agrees to letting the husband make the decision for both of them.

 

Nonsense.
You do not submit to someone you agree with.
Why would we be told to do what we already want to do?

 

While I'm not aware of any single verse which states "let the man make the decision when the husband and wife do not agree," there is a verse that states that children obey parents, a verse that says wives obey husbands, and multiple verses that say humans should obey God.

As Christians we are to submit one to another, but in addition, women are to obey their husbands. Common sense tells you that there will come times when, as humans, we may not be in full agreement with our spouse, whether it's a no-fault cause or because one is not in full agreement with the Holy Spirit in their spiritual life. It is in those cases that I believe obedience comes in, and one of the only times where it is going to be needed in a marriage with two Christians.

My Jewish heritage also kicks in on this issue. Men should treat women like gold, and women should treat men as Kings. However, the final authority in disagreements is upon the person who holds the spiritual leadership, and that would be the man.

As a woman, I love that. LOL It gives me someone to blame if I can't make a decision or disagree with one. If he's wrong, HIS FAULT. If I'm wrong, still his fault. Where's the problem?

 

There's not a single verse commanding wives to obey their husbands.

People don't agree out of human arrogance. The spiritual answer is to humble oneself and come to an agreement. The spiritual answer is not to give dictatorial rule to the husband. That is not scripturally supported.

And when that happens, there is never disagreement. I can attest to that, because this is how my wife and I treat each other. If two cannot agree, it's not because one isn't obeying, it's because the spouses are not treating each other like that. The answer is not to have the man be the last word (that doesn't solve the underlying problem). The answer is to get back to treating the men like kings and the women like gold.

That's a huge problem. Blaming the man is not a healthy marriage, and not consistent with the two being one. Just the opposite.

Really? I submit to Christ, and I never disagree with him.

 

I don't think anyone is arguing authority, I think the issue is what that authority entails. But I disagree with you that a married couple will never fully agree. On issues that affect the household, my wife and I have never remained in disagreement. We make the decisions together. I fail to see why this is so difficult for make people.

 

Sigh.
Chapter and verse, please.

 

Then, like the Honda Motor Corporation, you and I are of one Accord. Would you not agree, though, that if someone is in a marrage, and they haven't figured out how to come to agreement with their spouse, that they have bigger issue in their marriage which the submission passage won't resolve?

I guarantee you, in a Godly marriage, the husband always has the final say, and it is usually "yes dear". :wavey: Being a Godly man isn't just a matter of being the head. It also entails knowing who the neck is. A happy wife makes for a happy marriage. And in all seriousness, only when a husband recognizes this is he worthy of being the head of the house.

 

What does it mean then for a wife to submit or be subject to her husband? This is something you have failed to expound on in your post.

You will be hard pressed to prove scripturally that the man is not over the woman. Just go back to Genesis 3:16. Part of the fall is the husband being over the wife.

In 1 Peter we learn that woman are the weaker vessel...ie not the stronger of the two.

This has nothing to do with worth but with roles. Men and woman are made different and have different roles and the woman is so be subject to the leadership of her husband. That leadership being like Christ loves the church. It is not a dictatorship or some crule form of power but one of service and love.

 

MAN!!! Are you whipped! :smilewinkgrin:

:laugh:

 

A couple have a teenage daughter who is wearing close that no doublt are revealing and tempting for the young men in her school and youth group. The mom, (blinded by the culture; the movies, magazines, etc) believes this is okay.

However, the father (moved by the scriptures) understands that to lust makes you guilty of adultery at heart. He is also aware of the reputation that his daughter can get because of this.

He says its time for new close and the mom disagrees. What should happen?

If your plan of action took place the daughter would continue to wear the same close until the mom and dad could come to an agreement.

However, if the biblical approach were taken then the father, as head of the home, the one who will have to answer to God, will throw out the horrible clothes and provide something his daughter could wear. The mother's agreement has no bearing on what is right in this case.

And I have to ask something. Are you the same guy who in a previous thread on another topic mentioned that you left your 1st wife because she cheated? If so....why didn't you wait around unti she agreed that what she was doing was wrong? Why did you get out? My guess is because of what the Bible taught on the subject. I don't intend for that to be harsh or critical. I simply want to offer perspective. Sometimes to wait on full agreement could do harm therefore action has to be taken.

 

If one of the parents has a problem with the outfit, the answer is no, she can't wear it. Doesn't matter if the mother thinks it's too revealing, or if the father thinks it's too revealing. If one of them thinks its' too revealing, then she can't wear it.

This is a VERY GOOD example of why parents shoudl be in a greement. If not, the child will learn to go to whichever parent will give her permission, thus playing the parents ageinst each other (something kids do all the time). If the daugher knows that she can't get away with it, then she'll know to wear clothes of which bother parents approve.

Actually, I did. I waited over a year to give my wife every reasonable opportunity to return to her marriage in faithfulness. I would have welcomed her back completely. I chose divorce only after I knew there was no other reasonable option. But that compared to this os truly apples and oranges.

 

John the point I was making in that is that married couples don't always agree and actions have to be taken. You waited a year...very noble but you acted on biblical conviction when your wife didn't agree.

In the story the father acted even though the wife disagreed.

Well the scripture is clear that in husband is head of the home. This may very well mean that he may need to do or not do things, even if the wife disagrees in order to honor God.

 

The problem with your story is that, if the father thinks it's okay for the daughter to wear revealing clothing, but the mother thinks it's wrong, then it should be okay for her to wear revealing clothing. Absolutely not. If either the mother or father think the outfit is revealing, then she shouldn't wear it.

Where the father needs to lead is to listen to his wife, and if his wife thinks the daughter's outfit is revealing, he should step up and tell the daughter that she can't wear it and take it on the chin, even though he might think the outfit is okay. That's spiritual headship.

 

This reminds me of the story about the mother ant and her son who were creeping along above the vats in a metal-finishing shop. Unfortunately, "Mom" lost her grip and fell into a tank below and drowned. The boy sadly crept along to his father and reported the tragedy.



His father said, "She should be happy because she always said a woman's place was in the chrome."

 

What you are saying is not "hard for so many to grasp." There is a failure on your part to realize that humbling one's self is something women do oh-so-much-more than you obviously realize, and in a Christian marriage, this is also something we do out of obedience to scripture and recognition for the authority a man has.

Look at what Annsni said:

BAM! She got it.

That's not to say that sometimes I don't just flat out disagree with my husband. There is one issue in particular I can think of where I fight on a regular basis to keep my mouth shut because I disagree. However, if I am wrong, I am wrong and will figure it out eventually and if he is wrong, then it's his responsibility and he'll figure it out eventually. You have heard me say it's great to have someone to blame...I say that in a joking manner, although I do admit it is a relief to have shared responsibility now in matters!

I'm pretty sure you know which passage of Scripture I'm about to give concerning obedience on the part of women. As of yet, I've not heard anyone come up with anything that remotely resembled a good reason for it not meaning what it seems to plainly state. Feel free to try convincing me otherwise. This is from the Darby translation:

1Likewise, wives, [be] subject to your own husbands, that, even if any are disobedient to the word, they may be gained without [the] word by the conversation of the wives,
2having witnessed your pure conversation [carried out] in fear;
3whose adorning let it not be that outward one of tressing of hair, and wearing gold, or putting on apparel;
4but the hidden man of the heart, in the incorruptible [ornament] of a meek and quiet spirit, which in the sight of God is of great price.
5For thus also the holy women who have hoped in God heretofore adorned themselves, being subject to their own husbands;
6as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord; whose children ye have become, doing good, and not fearing with any kind of consternation.
7[Ye] husbands likewise, dwell with [them] according to knowledge, as with a weaker, [even] the female, vessel, giving [them] honour, as also fellow-heirs of [the] grace of life, that your prayers be not hindered.
8Finally, [be] all of one mind, sympathising, full of brotherly love, tender hearted, humble minded;

 

Please explain what those verses meant to the audience at that time. What is the cultural context.

Oh yes, woman's place is in the home........sure beats living on the streets!

Cheers,

Jim