A young mans responsibility

[Sularis]

Not quite

1 Corinthians 6:16 - What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.

I now reference the verse Genesis 2:24 - Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

An argument can be made for Deut 22:28-29 being violence and rape - However Exodus 22:16 covers non-violence and there is a provision for non-marriage - that is the parents of the girl say no - the boy is still responsible fiscally.

Mark 10:7 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; 8 And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh. 9 What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. 10 And in the house his disciples asked him again of the same matter.
11 And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.

To be crude - he had sex with her - he is now one flesh with her - he should marry her - the only way he gets off the hook is if she AND her parents say go away. There is also communal responsibility - It's the church's and community's job to help them - to help them mature

Quite simply by not enforcing Biblical principles - you lessen consequences - lessening consequences is a slippery slope.

In regards to them being a violent and druggie - one would hope that someone is violent or a druggie would call themselves a Christian. but on the off-chance they are - someone has failed in their responsibilities - be it the parent(s), friends, the church or some combination thereof. Also if they are one would again hope that people are helping the violent druggie become a nonviolent undruggie

someone posted:
"Encouraging them to marry after they have received much marital counseling and much instruction from their own parents and after they have expressed a biblical desire to make a commitment to one another....a mature and one-on-one commitment that stands on its own merit, without the baby.....then marriage should be encouraged."

I'm not saying hold a gun to their heads - but "encouragement" should definitely be encouraged.

The sacrificial system is not universal. Its the OT - we have a new and better covenant that is the NT - HOWEVER I'm not supporting the tossing out of the OT - the OT is crucial in that it explains and can modify principles in the NT. If the NT is silent but the OT is not - then the OT must be followed. If the principle in NT appears to be contradicted by the OT - then great thought must be applied and the passages must be harmonized.

The Bible does state you break it you bought it - although in far nicer terms - Its one of the verses I posted above

too many people go "It's a sin - It's God's job to forgive me" - or "It's not so bad - there are worse things/people then me" or "that's just the OT we can ignore it" or we go "everyone younger then me is incapable of thought and thus should not bear any responsibility"

I've seen 12 year olds capable of far more rational thought then most adults. They do not lack the ability - They lack experience - This should not excuse them for poor choices - it can be mitigating - but NOT a carte blanche for sin!

 

[Scarlett O.]

Thank you for tempering your speech....softening your analogies.

1 Corinthians 6:16 - What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.

This is why sexual sins are so grievous. Your verse in context, i.e. 1 Corinthians 6:15-20, discusses the body and how sexual sins affect us differently than any other sin.

I do not believe that this passage, however, is making a case for men to marry the prostitutes that they have sex with.

now reference the verse Genesis 2:24 - Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

Yes. This is a picture of Christ and the church. A holy union ordained by God.

A man having sex with a prostitute is not a picture of Christ and the church. Nor is two teenagers having pre-marital sex in a seedy motel on prom night. What makes these so ugly is that they are pictures, if you will, of idolatry and betrayal. These unions aren't blessed by God.

An argument can be made for Deut 22:28-29 being violence and rape - However Exodus 22:16 covers non-violence and there is a provision for non-marriage - that is the parents of the girl say no - the boy is still responsible fiscally.

I know that I am sounding like a nit-picky pest. :laugh:

But Exodus 22:16 isn't talking about a boy getting a girl pregnant. It's talking about a grown man who seduces or entices a young girl. Not a violent rape, but a seduction.

The whole chapter of Exodus 22 is about restitution. Verses 1-15 are about physical restitutions and verses 16-31 are about social restitutions and responsibilities.

Young girls got married pretty early back then. Many times to grown men. Today, we might call those relationships sick, but that's just one way that their culture was different from ours and it was not unseemly for them. Possibly, this is why marriages were social contracts, arranged by the parents or arranged by the man and the girl's parents. It protected the girl from marrying an abusive man.

If a grown man saw a young girl that he liked and enticed or seduced her into having pre-marital sex with her that was wrong according to the law. And Exodus 22 is part of the civil code that tells how to make restitution when you do something wrong.

The law said that he must marry her, unless her father objects. Why would he object? He must not be that great of a guy if he goes around seducing young girls. But he still had to make financial restitution to the family. Sort of like what we do today in civil court. This wasn't rape, so he couldn't be charged with a crime, but is was still wrong, so he owes the girl compensation. In those days, the money went to the father.

This is another passage in the civil section of the Law that is not describing a picture of Christ and the church nor is it describing a holy union ordained by God. It is again describing restitution.

Mark 10:7 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; 8 And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh. 9 What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

There is an obscene amount of sex going on.....all kinds of sex....that is not representative of "what God hath joined together".

Again, referring to your citation of 1 Corinthians, this is why fornication, rape, adultery, molestation, beastiality, teenage pre-marital sex, pornographic films, and homosexuality are so horrid....not just physically, but for what they represent spiritually.

The pure sexual relationship of a christian man and woman who are married represents a spiritual relationship between Christ and His Beloved Church. What then must all these other types of sexual sin represent? Idolatry....blasphemy.....betrayal of God.

 

[Aaron]

This is my first post, so if this is the wrong place I'm sorry. Biblically,if an 18 year old man gets his 17 year old girlfriend pregnant what is his responsibility. I feel that they need to get married,but what does the bible say? Thanks and God bless<><

His responsibility is to marry the girl. Can he be forced to marry? No. But he is responsible to marry her.

 

[Aaron]

Could you please share these passages?

Exodus 22:16.

 

[Sularis]

nit-picking

None of those verses were meant to be taken by themselves

the harlot verse points to what sex does - one fleshing people
the genesis verse points out with whom one fleshing should occur
the exodus verse shows the consequence of inappropriate one-fleshing and cannot be SOLELY interpreted as old geezes knocking up young flesh - It clearly shows forth the principle you break it - you bought it - It doesnt matter age - age does not even come into it (because its NOT mentioned in the verse) - you are focussing on cultural concepts that are irrelevant.

 

[Scarlett O.]

None of those verses were meant to be taken by themselves

the harlot verse points to what sex does - one fleshing people
the genesis verse points out with whom one fleshing should occur
the exodus verse shows the consequence of inappropriate one-fleshing and cannot be SOLELY interpreted as old geezes knocking up young flesh - It clearly shows forth the principle you break it - you bought it - It doesnt matter age - age does not even come into it (because its NOT mentioned in the verse) - you are focussing on cultural concepts that are irrelevant.

That's fine. I will concede the point that ages are not mentioned in the verse, but they are implied. Man - young virgin (unmarried girl).

And I will concede that age is not relevant to the purpose of that particular law.

However, I still assert that this passage is about restitution and not about two people in love and committed to building a home and family together.

I believe in the nuclear family. I believe that children should be raised in the security of a home with a mother and father.

However, when that secure Godly environment is not going to be found in a 14 year old girl and the 16 year old boy that have been having sex in the back of a car, other options should be considered such as adoption, raising of the baby by a family member, and/or raising of the baby by the teenage mother and her mother until the girl is mature enough to marry - whether she marries that particular boy, whom she has stopped having sex with, or whether it is someone else.

Whether they marry or not, they should stop having sex and the young boy is at a minimum financially responsible for that child as long as the mother is physically responsible for him.

Children raised in an enviroment of immature married teens who have no clue how to treat other as husband and wife and who are still dependent on their parents for all of their own needs and who depend on the grandparents to raise the baby and who are divorced in a year anyway is not a biblical family. It is a devastating tragedy. Tragic far beyond fornication.

Two people who do not love each other and have no intention of even trying to create a environment of a Godliness in their home make horrible parents and create horrible homes. They have no business having sex and they have no business getting married.

Fornicators do not need to get married to absolve themselves. They need to repent and stop fornicating to do that. Weddings do not absolve them of their fornication and weddings do not make a marriage.