Abortion or Poverty?

I'm referring to who is calling the shots, not where the funding is coming from.

 

1) Are you saying the D.C. spends more per pupil in its schools in good neighborhoods and less per pupil in its schools in the slums?

2) Yeah, we are having to look over our shoulders to stay ahead of those economic juggernauts in Scandanavia.

3) Have you considered the difference in demographics?

 

There seems to be an assumption behind the question of the OP that poverty is a cause of abortion. Is there any truth to this?

In my experience, women have abortions because having a child would be inconvenient to their career plans, college plans, or other plans. Or it's because they are single and just don't want to deal with being a single mother. Or it's to keep the boyfriend who doesn't want marriage yet or a child yet.

So what does poverty have to do with this? Do you all really think it's just the very poor having abortions? I'd like to see some stats.

 

I like the DeeJay plan to reduce abortion

Long, long long prison sentences for anyone who murders a child born or unborn. Long prison sentences for anybody who has their unborn child murdered.

 

DISCLAIMER: I do not justify or excuse any case of abortion.

However,

we do need to remember those in desparate cases who need to know the love of God rather than out right anger and damnation.

It is easy to stand above a person and tell them how terrible they are, through them in jail and through away the keys.

But it takes much more to come along side and be a help. To come along side and let a person know there is hope and to potentially help support the single mother or struggling family for the first few years of the child's life.

Just wanted to through that out there.

 

I believe murderers belong in jail. It makes not a difference to me if the murdered child is 6 years old or soon to be born.

I agree we need to come along side and let a murder know there is hope. That is what prison ministries are for.

I do also agree that there should be charity to single mothers. A helping hand for those who have made a mistake. But even the lack of charity does not excuse the murder of an unborn child.

 

Granted, that is why I put in my disclaimer.

All I am saying is that in some cases coming along and hollering "Murderer! Murderer! Your going to kail forever!" is not going to help.

Take a "worst case scenerio." Consider a Christian (or any other) young lady with upstanding morals and who has always intended on remaing pure until marriage. Then she becomes the victim of a rape and concieves a child by her rapist. She is understandably devestated and in her state mind starts talking about abortion.

To such a one we cannot stand in front of and bluntly start talking about murder and sending her to jail.

I just want to make the point that as strongly as we may feel about the subject if we deal angrily with those considering abortion we may actually be doing more harm than good to the mother and unborn child.

 

I agree.

We do need to use tact in a situation like that. Causing a person to shut out everything we say is not the smart move if we are trying to convince that person about our point of view.

But I do feel strongly that abortion needs to be against the law and punished. Of course punishing lawbreakers and standing on the street corner yelling at people are two different things. I see where you are coming from.

 

You too DJ - God bless.

 

Your plan assumes that even early term abortions are equivalent to murder. That has not been proven, either scientifically or scripturally.

Until you are in one of the following situations, your idea is moot. Until you are, for example:

• A post-pubescent girl raped or the victim of incest (a compassionate society does not revicitmize its victims)
• A woman who carrying a fetus to term would result in your certain death

 

Would you have the unborn baby be a victim by paying for a crime committted by another person through being killed?

 

it just absolutely amazes me that a "christian" could support such an atrocity.

Jer 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
Abortion is the most unchristian, ungodly, evil thing. I do not care what the situation is. What you should not do as a compassionate society is continue the tragedy of rape by adding on top of that muder.

Who is it that forms us? It is God? Who is it that has a plan for us even before we are concieved? it is God? Who is it that wants to dismiss human life and Gods' will? Abortionists.

Evil, pure ungodly evil. Sacrificing children on the alter of convenience. How fortunate for some that the blood of Christ even covers this sin.

 

Poles, when does life begin?

It appears many so far take the position life begins at conception. If so, any abortion is wrong. This is my personal position.

If life begins at any time then it becomes subjective. If what we call life you just call a bunch of cells, then life has become subjective.

 

I think less than 2% of abortions are for rape/incest and almost none are done to save the life of the mother. The medical conditions which require an abortion to save the mother's life are very rare these days, except in tubal pregnancies, which themselves are infrequent. And in that case, the baby could not survive anyway.

That leaves about 98% of abortions done for
Convenience
To please boyfriend/husband
Pressure from family
Economic reasons, which I think is actually a small percentage

I feel like this whole discussion is done on the false premise that women get abortions out of poverty or rape, when actually it seems to usually be for convenience. No one responded to the points in my post above.

 

After it is a developed fetus? Not in most circumstances. While it is a mass of undeveloped cells? You bet!

And it absolutely amazes me that a "Christian minister" could support the atrocity of making a little girl carry her rapist's child to birth. That is child abuse, sir!


And your quoted verse doesn't address at all when the start of a new human begins. It talks about God's foreknowledge and doesn't address the issue at hand at all.

As I stated on another thread here, we don't know the answer to that. Obviously sometime between fertilization of the ova and full term birth. It IS obvious to me that a indistinct lump of cellular material that has no brain, no thoughts, no breath, no central nervous system, no respiratory or circulatory system, is NOT a baby. It could potentially become one given the right circumstances.

Now Marcia, you know I am going to ask for sources for your assertions.

Plus, regardless of the number, there are rape and incest cases, life of the mother cases, that hard liners would repunish the victim over. Does it matter if it is one person or ten thousand, if you are the one?

 

MP,

Is a baby coming through the canal, as in a partial birth abortion ("late term abortion") a baby?

 

According to the criteria you quoted me on, I would say yes, except for drawing breath. So-called late term abortions are already illegal, I believe, unless the mother's life is at risk, although I could be wrong on that (and am too lazy to Google it right now). :sleep:

 

MP,

Thanks. The last phrase threw me, though. Do you mean that that is a further criteria for whether it is a baby, that it must draw its first breath? I may have misunderstood you.

 

Yes, and I probably didn't word it all that unabiguously. Sorry about that. I don't think it has to draw breath, as obviously it cannot while inside the mother.

 

I am sorry that you feel that way, brother. :tear: