Abortion or Poverty?

Ken, I can tell you this. I think a lot of abortions for post sexual assault victims can be avoided with the Plan B pill. But it needs to be taken very shortly after the assault.

When my granddaughter is old enough to get pregnant you can bet I would sacrifice such a cellular mass for her physical and emotional health should such a situation happen. Getting over a rape is hard enough without making a child carry her rapist's offspring. I would take care of her first. She is my priority.

OFF TOPIC: WOOO HOOO! 2000 Posts Club. Where is my plaque?

 

MP,

Is there a point, then, during the term when the fetus attains a right to life, at some point before birth, or only during the birth process?

 

My belief is that there is a point, probably somewhere in between where there has been development of human organs and systems, beyond which I would not approve of abortion except under extreme circumstances. An analogy would be I can mix eggs, flour, milk in a bowl (conception), but it isn't a cake (baby) until it is baked. It could become a cake, but it might not. A bit of a stretch, yes, but you get the idea. Where does one draw the line? That is the crux of the debate. I understand those who take the most conservative view, of life beginning at conception, but I believe that to be extreme.

 

Congrats on 2,000 posts! Glad you're still here!

 

Thanks, me too! Now, on to the next benchmark, the Lord and moderators permitting! :laugh:

 

Am curious how many pro-life/anti-abortion folks here are willing to accept a rape or abortion exception as a political compromise, in order to limit at least most abortions. The down side is that I don't know of a way to ensure that such exception becomes a rationalization for continued convenience abortions.

 

It does become a baby! All the material is there for the development of the pre-born child. This is the beginning of the child.

I used to work for a pro-life organization and that's how I knew the 1 to 2% is for cases of rape or incest.

Reasons women choose abortion (from same link):

Note that the reasons above are the reasons women give, so they may or may not be accurate. I knew women who had abortions because they claimed they could not support a child but actually they could. It's just that it would have been a hardship. I've known many women who had abortions and was pro-choice myself until late 1990. An abortion was totally accepted as something to do if a pregnancy was interfering with your life.

 

Personally, I want all abortions outlawed. If a non-abortion procedure to save the mother's life is attempted and the baby dies as an indirect result, that is not an abortion.

 

BTW. I found this on WebMD stats about U.S. abortions:

 

I did some research for you, and found these tables as part of a study. PDF located at [SIZE=-1]www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/3711005.pdf[/SIZE]

Sorry for the loss of formatting:

TABLE 2. Percentage of women reporting that specified reasons contributed to their
decision to have an abortion, 2004 and 1987


Reason 2004 1987


Having a baby would dramatically change my life 74 78*
Would interfere with education 38 36
Would interfere with job/employment/career 38 50***
Have other children or dependents 32 22***
Can’t afford a baby now 73 69
Unmarried 42 na
Student or planning to study 34 na
Can’t afford a baby and child care 28 na
Can’t afford the basic needs of life 23 na
Unemployed 22 na
Can’t leave job to take care of a baby 21 na
Would have to find a new place to live 19 na
Not enough support from husband or partner 14 na
Husband or partner is unemployed 12 na
Currently or temporarily on welfare or public assistance 8 na
Don’t want to be a single mother or having relationship problems 48 52*
Not sure about relationship 19 na
Partner and I can’t or don’t want to get married 12 30***
Not in a relationship right now 11 12
Relationship or marriage may break up soon 11 16*
Husband or partner is abusive to me or my children 2 3
Have completed my childbearing 38 28**
Not ready for a(nother) child† 32 36
Don’t want people to know I had sex or got pregnant 25 33*
Don’t feel mature enough to raise a(nother) child 22 27*
Husband or partner wants me to have an abortion 14 24***
Possible problems affecting the health of the fetus 13 14
Physical problem with my health 12 8**
Parents want me to have an abortion 6 8
Was a victim of rape 1 1
Became pregnant as a result of incest <0.5 <0.5
*p<.05. **p<.01. ***p<.001. †This was a write-in response in 2004 and 1987. Note: na=not applicable, because
survey questions were not comparable. Source: 1987—reference 4.

Lots more in the full report.

 

Pro-Life Libertarian Position on Pregnancy Due to Rape Article LINK

 

And addressing the issue in the OP, the report says:

 

Pro-Life Libertarian Position on Mother's Life in Danger Article LINK

 

I would accept a rape exeption as a compromise in order to limit most abortions, as a first step.

There should be no rape exeption because the evil of murdering a baby is not the answer to the evil of rape. In fact the crime of murdering the baby is far worse then the crime of rape and the mother should recieve a longer prison sentence then the rapist.

And I do not need to be the victim of rape to know that murder is wrong.

 

I'm sorry, I just saw the error when DJ quoted it. I meant rape or incest.

 

You should hear the testimony of women who were raped and say the abortion only compounds the pain. How do you know that one day your granddaughter would not feel extreme guilt at aborting her baby. This is only adding to the pain of the rape.

Also, there are testimonies of women who are glad they did not abort the child of the rape. It is not the child's fault. The child may bring joy because the mother realizes it is not the child's fault.

 

I have to admit that I am appalled that Christians would defend abortion. And I say this as someone who was pro-abortion for all my life until after I was saved.

My view of abortion made a total turnaround, without anyone saying a word to me. I realized that the unborn child from the moment of conception was a precious human being made in the image of God, and that to destroy this life on purpose is murder.

Since I had believed in reincarnation before, and that the unborn baby might not have a soul until shortly before birth, these 2 beliefs allowed me to accept abortion (I was also a feminist). Once I knew these 2 views were false, and I realized the value of life in God's eyes and that He is the creator of that life, I could not keep my pro-abortion position.

The OT is full of how God opens and closes wombs. When he "opens" a womb for a baby to be conceived, aborting that baby is going against God, imo.

 

And if man was meant to fly, God would have given him wings!

 

According to Benny Hinn we don't need no stinkin wangs! :thumbs:

 

Discussion has been around when life begins and it has been suggested sometime after organs and the brain has developed.

At what point does the "mass of cells" become a living soul? When does the "mass of cells" come into exist in the sense of their soul and spirit?

To connect human "life" with a purely physical reference point is to omit God from the conversation. Life is more than just our physical existance.