"Abortion President"

[Revmitchell]

Not surprised, just unable to come to grips with it.

Well there is no doubt that Odrama's legacy will be abortion

 

[LeBuick]

I know you know it...

What are you driving at? You have to have a point I am missing.

Yes, I was going to make a theological point or at least challenge a brothers thoughts but looks like I should bow out of that notion according to the moderator.

I will leave my point being, one dieing that others might live is not a new phenomena. There have been times where some have died unwillingly and others lived because of their death. No one willingly dies in a car accident, yet their organs might help another live. I am sure when they signed the donor card they were hoping it wouldn't be used anytime soon.

How about when one shields another from a grenade blast or accidentally takes the bullet for another? Not leaps on the grenade, just so happen to absorb the blast causing others to live.

Yes, I don't appreciate the taking of an unborn life but if another can benefit I find it better than just discarding the fetus. Yes it is an atrocity but at least it isn't a complete waste.

 

[LeBuick]

I am just sitting here in disbelief at what I'm reading in this thread. It still baffles me how this kind of discussion can even take place among Christians.

How can anyone who claims Christ support the deliberate destruction of human life? Creating life for the sole purpose of destroying it is sin, pure and simple. That this would be debated among Christians is sad, to say the least.

I hope you don't mean me. I never supported the deliberate destruction of taking another life but said if the deed has already been done, and someone else can be helped, then at least the deed was not done totally in vein...

 

[targus]

I hope you don't mean me. I never supported the deliberate destruction of taking another life but said if the deed has already been done, and someone else can be helped, then at least the deed was not done totally in vein...

Then you would be in favor of harvesting organs from executed criminals - against their wishes - as they do in China?

 

[LeBuick]

Then you would be in favor of harvesting organs from executed criminals - against their wishes - as they do in China?

I had never heard of that so can't speak to it at this time.

Would these be murderers who took another life? IOW against their will?

 

[Amy.G]

I hope you don't mean me. I never supported the deliberate destruction of taking another life but said if the deed has already been done, and someone else can be helped, then at least the deed was not done totally in vein...

The "deed" is done intentionally for the purpose of harvesting stem cells. Stem cells aren't harvested after an accidental death of an embryo.

 

[LeBuick]

The "deed" is done intentionally for the purpose of harvesting stem cells. Stem cells aren't harvested after an accidental death of an embryo.

You are referring to embryos created exclusively for research. There are also embryos that are excess from fertility clinics. These embryos were destined to be destroyed and were what I was referring to.

 

[Amy.G]

You are referring to embryos created exclusively for research. There are also embryos that are excess from fertility clinics. These embryos were destined to be destroyed and were what I was referring to.

As Christians, we should not be involved in the destruction of any embryos, regardless of what someone else plans to do with them. Wrong is wrong. It is our responsibility to do what is right.

 

[Palatka51]

No, what I implied is when it comes to praying for someone receiving stem cell treatment, it would not be the first time someone died that others might live. Death is a part of life we can't avoid. You can take and twist my statement as you will, but that is what I said.

So, if you have a heat that is a close type to me and I need a heart transplant I can have you murdered so that I can live?

Oh, how selfish of me!!!! For shame, for shame!!!

Christ freely gave Himself that others might live. He was not coerced, He was not murdered, He had the power to lay down His own life and the power to take it up again. He said, "No man has the power to take it from Him."

 

[Palatka51]

I am absolutely 110% sure Jesus wasn't murdered.. but laid down his life.
He had the power to lay it down and raise it up...

I am really surprised that YOU would question that....
That is the pure basis for our Christian faith...


If a person doesn't believe that Christ freely gave his life for the lost.. they cannot be saved.
If a person thinks he was murdered.. they do not understand salvation.
And are not saved...


I know you know it...

What are you driving at? You have to have a point I am missing.

Sorry about that Tim, You beat me to the point and you did it well. :godisgood:

 

[Palatka51]

Not surprised, just unable to come to grips with it.

I know just what you mean Amy. :tear:

 

[targus]

I had never heard of that so can't speak to it at this time.

Would these be murderers who took another life? IOW against their will?

What difference would it make what the crime was?

Wouldn't you support the "good" that would come from the "bad" of their death?

I'm getting the feeling that you haven't thought any of this through and that you are just running on your feelings at any given time.

 

[Palatka51]

What difference would it make what the crime was?

Wouldn't you support the "good" that would come from the "bad" of their death?

I'm getting the feeling that you haven't thought any of this through and that you are just running on your feelings at any given time.

No, his response to these threads have always been well thought out. He and several others are derailing threads that voice negatives regarding Democratic socialist policies. And his commit regarding Christ's sacrifice being of equal value of embryonic stem cell research, sense a life is killed so that another might live, does just that. This is their effort to shut up the opposition.

 

[Don]

LeBuick and MP - I'd like to think that I've always tried to deal even-handedly with y'all, because you do put out some thoughtful, reasoned posts.

However, you've both made some comments in this thread that don't sound like your usual thoughtful, reasoned posts. Magnetic Poles, I've already discussed where your initial entries in this thread were incorrect.

L, an embryo created for the sole purpose of destroying is not the same as Christ's sacrifice on the cross. I can see where you might make the connection--God becoming human just so that He could be sacrificed on the cross; and people killed him willingly and knowingly, without just cause, and thereby committed murder--but the major failure with this reasoning is that God willingly, voluntarily made Himself human to be sacrificed on the cross.

You cannot make a comparison to a scientist making a completely different organism, that is no part of himself, and upon destroying it, destroys no part of himself. You cannot make a comparison that an embryo gave its life for someone else, when others created it solely for the purpose of destroying it without giving it the opportunity to willingly, voluntarily give up its own life. The analogy just doesn't work.

Please give it some thought.

 

[LeBuick]

What difference would it make what the crime was?

Wouldn't you support the "good" that would come from the "bad" of their death?

I'm getting the feeling that you haven't thought any of this through and that you are just running on your feelings at any given time.

The biblical principle of eye for an eye... I think you are getting to passionate about your individual cause that you stop looking at the big picture.

 

[LeBuick]

So, if you have a heat that is a close type to me and I need a heart transplant I can have you murdered so that I can live?

Oh, how selfish of me!!!! For shame, for shame!!!

I never said you can murder a person to get their heart, I am saying if the person is murdered and you need a heart and theirs will work???

 

[LeBuick]

L, an embryo created for the sole purpose of destroying is not the same as Christ's sacrifice on the cross. I can see where you might make the connection--God becoming human just so that He could be sacrificed on the cross; and people killed him willingly and knowingly, without just cause, and thereby committed murder--but the major failure with this reasoning is that God willingly, voluntarily made Himself human to be sacrificed on the cross.

You cannot make a comparison to a scientist making a completely different organism, that is no part of himself, and upon destroying it, destroys no part of himself. You cannot make a comparison that an embryo gave its life for someone else, when others created it solely for the purpose of destroying it without giving it the opportunity to willingly, voluntarily give up its own life. The analogy just doesn't work.

Please give it some thought.

Don, I respect your post but it isn't fair after I was warned and said I would not defend where I was going. Because you don't see my point doesn't mean I didn't have one or that it wasn't valid.

From the larger picture, I see so many of you get so passionate about one type of life being wasted that ignore all other life almost to the point of hypocrisy. I understand and respect your potions on abortion but encourage you not to get tunnel vision. There are a lot of things going wrong in this world that Christians should feel passionately against.

 

[Don]

Don, I respect your post but it isn't fair after I was warned and said I would not defend where I was going. Because you don't see my point doesn't mean I didn't have one or that it wasn't valid.

Now I understand. Had to read your response a couple of times to get it through my head.

On that point, you and I disagree. I'll PM you to confirm.

 

[targus]

The biblical principle of eye for an eye... I think you are getting to passionate about your individual cause that you stop looking at the big picture.

No, I am simply trying to get to the moral basis for your opinions.

You applaude the "good" in the form of research that comes with the death of the embryo. Why do you not then applaude the "good" that would come from the involuntary harvesting of all available organs from an executed criminal?

Remember your "no greater love" position.

In both cases the living individual has their life taken without consent and both would then have their mortal remains used for another "good" purpose.

Why do you see a distinction there?

I am simply asking you to explain and logically your position on this.

Won't you please enter into the debate?

 

[tinytim]

I never said you can murder a person to get their heart, I am saying if the person is murdered and you need a heart and theirs will work???

That makes a little more sense... BUT.. the person that killed the other person deserves to be punished...

IF this analogy is played out.. the scientists or abortion doctors should be punished... as well as mothers and fathers that give their son's and daughters to be murdered...

A crime is a crime..

Murder is murder...

Both should be punished.