Abortions before 1973

[Revmitchell]

How are they questionable? As I stated, did 1.3 million women decide to have a legal abortion the year after "100,000" did? My figures jive with reality much more than the 100,000 figure does. So you would rather have them murdered in a back alley? Are you really worried about the babies?

So ripping a baby apart limb by limb is better in a doctors office than in an alley?

How sick is that!

How do we know 1.3 is acurate? Who says? What study and statistics show us this? Did you look at the links I provided?

 

[JerryL]

So ripping a baby apart limb by limb is better in a doctors office than in an alley?

How sick is that!

How do we know 1.3 is acurate? Who says? What study and statistics show us this? Did you look at the links I provided?

Double post.

 

[JerryL]

So ripping a baby apart limb by limb is better in a doctors office than in an alley?

How sick is that!

How do we know 1.3 is acurate? Who says? What study and statistics show us this? Did you look at the links I provided?

This could go on forever Rev. Is it better to do it in an alley? Do you really care about the babies? Did you look at the link I provided? Is it logical to say abortions went from 100,000 to 1.4 million in a year or is it logical to say they went from 1.2 to 1.4 in a year? Your source only states abortion related deaths. Facts show that abortion related deaths went down the year they were legal. But we are talking about the babies in this thread.

 

[Revmitchell]

This could go on forever Rev. Is it better to do it in an alley? Do you really care about the babies? Did you look at the link I provided? Is it logical to say abortions went from 100,000 to 1.4 million in a year or is it logical to say they went from 1.2 to 1.4 in a year?

I did look at the link. I question the figures.

What kind of sick logic thinks that we care more for babies if we slaughter them in a doctors office rather than an alley? And murderers should be imprisoned.

 

[JerryL]

I did look at the link. I question the figures.

What kind of sick logic thinks that we care more for babies if we slaughter them in a doctors office rather than an alley? And murderers should be imprisoned.

Use your logic in taking in the numbers. You win, I refuse to argue with ignorance.

 

[tinytim]

According to http://poodwaddle.com/clocks2.htm 28 MILLION have been aborted this yr!

That is way more than 1.2 million a yr before 73...
Go to the link above, and click on "death" and it will give you the figures...

Then follow the links to find the sources...

 

[rbell]

There has to be a honorable solution to this problem

Maybe it's just me, but I don't think I know of an honorable way to kill babies.

 

[Revmitchell]

Maybe it's just me, but I don't think I know of an honorable way to kill babies.

It's not just you.

 

[annsni]

Do the logical reasoning on this JWP. The number didn't majically go from 100,000 to 1.4 million because of it being legal. The other figures say 1.2, which is very logical considering it was 1.4 the next year. If by your reasoning in your "same question here" paragraph, the numbers could be even higher. Do you honestly believe that 1.3 million more women wanted an abortion after it became legal the next year, from '72 to '73?

Do you seriously think that 200,000 women didn't have abortions because it was illegal and that's it? That those were the only women who obeyed the law? I don't think so.

I'm sure it was higher than 100,000 because, since it was illegal, we're never going to know the true number but 1.2 to 1.4 million is not nearly accurate either.


Honestly, the argument that it's going to happen anyway so let's make it safe and legal doesn't float. How about let's make sure that druggies have good pure drugs and not the junk that's on the streets now that it's illegal and not regulated. Let's get the government involved and let THEM make good pure drugs with labels and everything. Then those who will go ahead and take drugs anyway have less of a chance of killing themselves. Hey - that's only ONE person involved in that one. How about rape? Men will rape women anyway so let's go ahead and make sure that we make nice clean rape centers with condoms and stuff so that it makes it safe for everyone.

None of that seems to fly, does it?

Abortion is 100% lethal to one of the patients.

 

[JerryL]

Maybe it's just me, but I don't think I know of an honorable way to kill babies.

That's what I'm saying. We need to come up with a solution to not kill them in the clinics OR the alleys. There has to be an answer better than just banning it. Basically the same number of babies will die. You people really don't care about the babies, just the legality of it.


To Ann: Do you think it went from say a few hundred thousand then to 1.4 million in a year? The 1.2 figure flies more than just a few hundred thousand. Abortion is still going to be 100% lethal to one of them in an "alley" also. The other comparison arguments reak of ignorance on the subject.

 

[rbell]

You people really don't care about the babies, just the legality of it.

You owe me an apology. That is about as offensive a statement as you could make.

You have NO IDEA what I have done for "the babies." Trust me...I back my actions up.

What a mean-spirited and untrue thing to say. Shame.

 

[JerryL]

You owe me an apology. That is about as offensive a statement as you could make.

You have NO IDEA what I have done for "the babies." Trust me...I back my actions up.

What a mean-spirited and untrue thing to say. Shame.

Not you personally rbell, by this logic I am hearing for two days now. "Make it illegal, no matter what." My point is that simply making abortion illegal doesn't solve the problem if they revert back to the allies. The point is, If we just focus on the simple banning of abortion and drive them back undergroud and roughly the same amount of babies die, do we really care about the babies or just the agenda of the politics?

 

[Marcia]

I just posted on the other thread before I saw this one about a book I once had admitting the figures were inflated. I could not think of the name of it but found it. It's by Bernard Nathanson, who was involved in abortions before Roe v Wade and wrote the book, Aborting America:

To be fair, the number Goodman uses is consistent with estimates that were widely cited prior to the Roe v. Wade decision in 1973. But some say those numbers were knowingly inflated by proponents of abortion rights. The star witness for this claim is Bernard Nathanson, a former abortion clinic doctor who in 1969 cofounded the group now called NARAL Pro-Choice America (the letters originally stood for National Association for the Repeal of Abortion Laws). Since Roe, though, he's turned against his former comrades--he made the highly controversial 1984 antiabortion film The Silent Scream and has authored several books describing his conversion on this issue and critiquing the abortion-rights movement. In Aborting America (1979) Nathanson writes: "In NARAL we generally emphasized the drama of the individual case, not the mass statistics, but when we spoke of the latter it was always '5,000 to 10,000 deaths a year.' I confess that I knew the figures were totally false, and I suppose the others did too if they stopped to think of it. But in the 'morality' of our revolution, it was a useful figure, widely accepted, so why go out of our way to correct it with honest statistics?" (underlining is mine)

Source: http://www.straightdope.com/columns...0-000-women-a-year-die-from-illegal-abortions

As a younger man, he had been strongly pro-choice, and he claims that he performed an abortion on a woman who had become pregnant by him.[1] He later gained national attention by then becoming one of the founding members of the National Association for the Repeal of Abortion Laws, now known as NARAL Pro-Choice America. He worked with Betty Friedan and others for the legalization of abortion in the United States. Their efforts essentially succeeded with the Roe v Wade decision. He was also for a time the director of the Center for Reproductive and Sexual Health (CRASH), New York's largest abortion clinic. Nathanson has written that he was responsible for over 75,000 abortions throughout his pro-choice career.
The development of ultrasound, however, in the 1970s led him to reconsider his views on abortion. He is now a staunch supporter of the pro-life movement. In 1984, he made the documentary The Silent Scream which showed an abortion from the perspective of ultrasound. His second documentary Eclipse of Reason dealt with late-term abortions. He has also stated that the numbers he once cited for NARAL concerning the number of deaths linked to illegal abortions were "false figures".

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Nathanson

 

[JerryL]

I just posted on the other thread before I saw this one about a book I once had admitting the figures were inflated. I could not think of the name of it but found it. It's by Bernard Nathanson, who was involved in abortions before Roe v Wade and wrote the book, Aborting America:


Source: http://www.straightdope.com/columns...0-000-women-a-year-die-from-illegal-abortions


Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Nathanson

Marcia, the figures you are stating are the deaths of the mothers, 5000-10000. That is not the figures of the babies dying, which in '72 was 1.2 million, compared to 1.4 million in '73. Your figures mean nothing to this topic.

 

[Marcia]

My point is that simply making abortion illegal doesn't solve the problem if they revert back to the allies. The point is, If we just focus on the simple banning of abortion and drive them back undergroud and roughly the same amount of babies die, do we really care about the babies or just the agenda of the politics?

Not true that all illegal abortions were done in back alleys. Many doctors performed them even though it was illegal. It was mostly the poorer women who had the "back alley" abortions but the middle-class and up usually were able to find doctors to do it. From same link as above.

Self-induced and back-alley abortions were becoming a thing of the past long before Roe: sex researcher Alfred Kinsey estimated in the 1950s that around 85 percent of illegal abortions were performed by physicians, even if the physicians weren't all in good standing. The fact is that prior to legalization abortion had become relatively safe and easy to obtain - for those who could afford it. Studies done at the time show that the risks were borne disproportionately by those who couldn't, mostly minorities. Were abortion to be recriminalized, that would likely be the case again.

 

[JerryL]

Not true that all illegal abortions were done in back alleys. Many doctors performed them even though it was illegal. It was mostly the poorer women who had the "back alley" abortions but the middle-class and up usually were able to find doctors to do it. From same link as above.

Still more irrelevance. They were still getting done at a rate of 1.2M a year, so why go back?

 

[Marcia]

Sorry about the mix-up.

During 1973, after the Supreme Court had legalized abortion-on-demand nationwide in January of that year, 744,600 abortions were done (according to the Alan Guttmacher Institute, an affiliate of Planned Parenthood, which surveys abortion providers and compiles abortion statistics). If abortion supporters want to claim that more than 1.2 million illegal abortions took place before 1973, then they must also explain why the legalization of abortion caused an immediate drop of more than 450,000 in the number of abortions!
The number of legal abortions did not reach 1 million until 1975, the third year of legalization. It was not until 1977 - four years after Roe v. Wade and with 2,688 abortion providers in operation - that the number exceeded 1.2 million, according to the Guttmacher Institute. The total number of legal abortions today is more than 1.3 million per year.

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cach...+aborted+before+1973&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

 

[Marcia]

Still more irrelevance. They were still getting done at a rate of 1.2M a year, so why go back?

I think the 1.2M a year is what is being disputed here.

 

[Revmitchell]

I think the 1.2M a year is what is being disputed here.

Yea he hasnt really provided anythign reliable on this.

 

[JerryL]

Sorry about the mix-up.


http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cach...+aborted+before+1973&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

So, do you want to go back to illegal and have about as many still done?