About Attacks on Rick Warren

Scientific and modern? :laugh:

I'm not the one who thinks a newborn can understand and respond to the Gospel. This sounds "scientific" if you ask me.

 

Webdog, how are babies saved by grace, since, as you claim, they have not sinned? Seems to me that it's not God's grace that saves them, but that they are owed salvation. God is giving them what they deserve, since they are innocent.

 

"Regardless what Andy says, babies do not know this. My son spits his food all over the place. I tell him "no", and he spits anyway."

I remember telling my 9 mo. old son, "No" and he understanding it. He would crawl around getting into things and we would tell him "No" and he would stop (and then cry). So my experience is different than yours.

 

Rom 3:20 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.
Rom 5:13 for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law.
Rom 5:20 Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,
Rom 7:7 What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin. I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, "You shall not covet."
Rom 7:8 But sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, produced in me all kinds of covetousness. Apart from the law, sin lies dead.

 

Webdog, you said that "Babies are saved by God's grace". But that is inconsistent with your views on sin and the age of accountability. How can it by God's grace since they are innocent, as you purport? Grace is receiving unmerited favor. Well, according to your views, the infant is receiving merited favor. Thus, it is no longer grace that saves him, but it is just payment for his merit. So you need to stop saying they are saved by grace.

 

How is Christ's death merited favor for anyone, infants included? Christ's blood atoned for ALL sin for ALL people, infants included. You don't get any more grace than that!

What is your take on the Scripture from Romans I posted?

 

Believe me, I do believe that anyone who is saved is saved by God's grace, infant or otherwise! I don't think you believe that in regards to infants, even though you said such a few posts ago. Why would Christ need to atone for an infant's sin that doesn't exist? According to you, a person does not sin until they are accountable (whenever that is). So the person who dies in infancy has never sinned, thus, he is owed heaven since he never sinned.

 

Maybe we could start a new thread?

are babies saved, or are not saved, by the Grace of God?

 

Again,

I should have worded my responses and questions better.

In Christ

Wayne

 

El Guero / Wayne,

You have nothing to apologize for. Your post way back had no influence on how I interpreted Webdog's post questioning MacArthur's salvation. Webdog's post was fairly straightforward, as I'm sure he would agree.

 

Yeah, this thread has morphed from questioning Rick Warren's salvation to questioning Johnny Mac's to babies' capacity for understanding to Webdog's kid spitting food to mine crawling in disobedience to infant salvation and original sin! Whew!

 

Since you think he cannot articulate what he knows, how can you know what he does not know? Maybe he does know what "no" means, and maybe he is articulating rebellion by spitting anyway. How can you tell?

 

Great point. :thumbs:

 

Yes...I am getting a bit dizzy