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About Cain

Salty

20,000 Posts Club
Administrator
When Cain fought with Able, did he understand the concept of killing and murder? If not, would he be guility of first degree (or possibly second degree) murder ?

Why did the Lord protect Cain? What was the purpose the "mark" . In Judaism, the mark is not a punishment but a sign of God's mercy. When Cain was sentenced to be a wanderer he did not dispute the punishment but only begged that the terms of his sentence be altered slightly.

According to The Midrash and the Conflict of Adam and Eve with Satan both record that the real motive involved the desire of women. According to Midrashic tradition, Cain and Abel each had twin sisters, whom they were to marry. The Midrash records that Abel's promised wife was the more beautiful. Cain would not consent to this arrangement. Adam proposed to refer the question to God by means of a sacrifice. God rejected Cain's sacrifice, signifying His disapproval of his marriage with Aclima, and Cain slew his brother in a fit of jealousy.

From Wikipedia



Is it possible that Cain did reprent of his sin.
 
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kyredneck

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Pink on Cain & Abel:

http://www.pbministries.org/books/pink/Gleanings_Genesis/genesis_08.htm

"Now all these things happened unto them for types (margin); and they are written for our admonition" (1 Cor. 10:11).

“Abel is a striking type of Christ, and his murder by Cain was a remarkable foreshadowment of our Lord’s rejection and crucifixion by the Jews. At least thirty-five points of resemblance can be traced here between type and antitype. In considering Abel as a type of our Lord, it is to be noted that, like Isaac, offered up on the altar and the ram caught in a thicket, which afterwards took his place in death, we have here a double type also. Both Abel and the offering which he brought pointed to the Lord Jesus.”

36 similarities itemized:

Abel was a shepherd (Gen. 4:2)
Our Lord is a "shepherd"—the Good Shepherd—

It was as a shepherd that Abel presented his offering unto God
It was as the Shepherd He presented His offering to God (John 10:11)

Though giving no cause for it, he was hated by his brother. Cain was jealous of his brother. i
Though giving no cause for it, Christ was hated by His brethren according to the flesh (John 15:25).

It was out of "envy" that Cain slew he slew Abel.
It was through "envy" that Christ was delivered up to be crucified (Matthew 27:18).

Abel then did not die a natural death.
Our Lord did not die a natural death. He was "slain" by wicked hands (Acts 2:23).

Abel met with a violent end at the hand of his own brother.
Christ was crucified by "The House of Israel" (Acts 2:36), His own brethren according to the flesh.

After his death God declared that Abel’s blood "cried" unto Him, and severe punishment was meted out upon his murderer.
After His death our Lord’s murderers were severely punished by God (Mark 12:9)

Abel presented an offering "unto God" (Heb. 11:4).
The Lord Jesus presented an offering "to God" (Eph. 5:2).

That the offering which Abel presented was "the firstlings of his flock": in other words, a "lamb."
The offering Christ presented was Himself—a "Lamb" (1 Pet. 1:19).

In bringing his offering "by faith," Abel honored and magnified the Will and Word of the Lord.
In presenting Himself as an offering He honored and magnified the Will and Word of God (Heb. 10:7-9).

The offering which Abel presented is described as an "excellent" one (Heb. 11:4).
The offering Christ presented was an "excellent" one—it was a "sweet smelling savor" (Eph. 5:2).

God had "respect unto Abel and to his offering": in other words, He accepted them.
God accepted Christ's offering: the proof of this is seen in the fact that He is now seated at God’s right hand (Heb. 10:12).

In the presentation of his offering Abel "obtained witness that he was righteous" (Heb. 11:4).
While presenting Himself on the Cross as an offering to God, Christ "obtained witness that He was righteous "—the centurion crying, "Certainly this was a righteous man" (Luke 23:47).

After Abel had presented his offering, God publicly "testified" His acceptance of it.
God publicly testified His acceptance of Christ’s offering by raising Him from the dead (Acts 2:32).

Abel’s offering still "speaks" to God—"By it he being dead yet speaketh."
Christ’s offering now "speaks" to God (Heb. 12:24).
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just as Abel and his offering are, at every point, a wonderful type of Christ and His offering, so Cain, who slew Abel, prefigures the Jews, who crucified their Messiah.

Cain was "a tiller of the ground" (Gen. 4:2). Thus the first thing told us about him connects him with the land.
The first thing which is conspicuous about the Jews was that they were the people of a land the promised land, the Holy Land (Gen. 13:15).

In refusing to bring the required lamb, Cain rejected the offering which God’s grace had provided.
In refusing the Lamb of God (John 1:11) the Jews rejected the offering which God’s grace had provided.

In his self-righteousness Cain brought an offering of his own choosing.
The apostle Paul declares that the Jews were "ignorant of God’s righteousness and going about to establish their own righteousness" (Rom. 10:3).

The offering he brought was the product of his own labors.
The Jews rested upon their own obedience to God’s Law (Rom. 9:21).

This offering was rejected by God.
But God had no respect to the Jew's works (Acts 13:39).

It was Cain’s God-given privilege to rule over his brother (Gen. 4:7).
Had Israel walked in God’s statutes they would have been the head of the nations (Deut. 28:13).

Cain forfeited his God-given privilege to rule over his brother.
But through sin the Jews forfeited the place and privilege (Isa. 9:14).

Being envious of Abel, Cain wickedly slew him.
It was the Jews who crucified the Christ of God (Acts 5:30).

God charged Cain with his crime.
God charged the Jews with their crime (Acts 2:22, 23).

God told Cain that Abel’s blood cried for vengeance.
Christ’s blood is now judicially resting "upon" the Jews (Matthew 27:25).

Because of the shedding of his brother’s blood, God’s curse fell upon Cain.
Because of the crucifixion of their Messiah, God’s curse fell upon Israel (Jer. 24:9)

Part of Cain's punishment consisted in the ground becoming barren to him (Gen. 4:12).
Part of the curse which God threatened of old to bring upon Israel was the barrenness of their land—"desolate" (Lev. 26:34, 35).

Further, Cain was to be a fugitive and vagabond in the earth.
The Jew has been an age-long wanderer in the earth (Deut. 28:65).

Cain acknowledged that his punishment was greater than he could bear.
Israel will yet acknowledge their punishment is greater than they can bear (Zech.12:10).

Because of his sin, he was "driven out" (Gen. 4:14).
Forty years after the Crucifixion, Israel was driven out of Palestine.

Because of his sin, he was hidden from God’s face.
Since the Crucifiction, God’s face has been hid from the Jews. (Hosea 1:9).

Every man’s hand was now against Cain (Gen. 4:14).
For nigh 2,000 years, almost every man’s hand has been against the Jew (Deut. 28:66).

God set a mark upon him (Gen. 4:15).
A mark of identification has been placed upon the Jew so that he can be recognized anywhere.

God declared that He would visit with a sevenfold vengeance those who slew Cain.
God’s special curse has always rested on those who have cursed Israel (Gen. 12:3).

Cain left the land and went and dwelt in a city (Gen. 4:17).
For the most part, even to this day, the Jews continue to congregate in large cities.

“Upon what ground can we account for this remarkable agreement between type and antitype? The only possible explanation lies in the supernatural inspiration of the Old Testament Scriptures. The Holy Spirit "moved" the writer of Genesis. Only He who knew the end from the beginning could have foreshadowed so accurately and minutely that which came to pass thousands of years afterwards. Prophecy, either in direct utterance or in symbolic type, is the Divine autograph upon the sacred page. May God continue to strengthen our faith in the divinity, the authority and the absolute sufficiency of the Holy Oracles.”
 

Winman

Active Member
It was first degree murder, there was intent.

I believe Cain killed Abel out of jealousy, not over women. There is nothing in scripture to support that. It says Cain was angry because Abel's sacrifice was accepted and Cain's was not.

And although I do not agree with Pink on theology, that is a very good article Kyredneck submitted and the similarities between Abel and Jesus and Cain and the Jews is striking.
 

kyredneck

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
It was first degree murder, there was intent.

Agree!

I believe Cain killed Abel out of jealousy, not over women.
Agree!

There is nothing in scripture to support that.

Agree!

It says Cain was angry because Abel's sacrifice was accepted and Cain's was not.

Agree!

And although I do not agree with Pink on theology, that is a very good article Kyredneck submitted and the similarities between Abel and Jesus and Cain and the Jews is striking.

I love Pink. He is 'the master' when it comes to types, similes, analogies, allegories, etc..
 

Scarlett O.

Moderator
Moderator
When Cain fought with Able, did he understand the concept of killing and murder? If not, would he be guility of first degree (or possibly second degree) murder ?

I believe that Cain knew exactly what he was doing. The New Testament calls what Cain did murder.

1 John 3:11-12
"This is the message you heard from the beginning: We should love one another. Do not be like Cain, who belonged to the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his own actions were evil and his brother's were righteous."


Also in this passage, we can see what his motives were.
 

Salty

20,000 Posts Club
Administrator
I brought this subject up when I was watching the History channel today. The program was on about 11 am or 12 noon (EST) today.

Some very interesting theories.
 

menageriekeeper

Active Member
Its getting close to Easter. History Channel is playing anything and everything related to scripture. The one I came across today claimed Christ was a copycat and the "real" messiah was someone who lived just before Christ's birth. :rolleyes:
 

Marcia

Active Member
I certainly would not use Midrash as a source; it's extra-biblical and although it might be interesting historically and as far as Jewish beliefs go, it might relate theologically, but for Christians it should not have an affect on our theology.

The Bible tells us what happened and why Cain was angry, and that he killed with intention. God even warned him and gave him an out.

Why God gave Cain a mark: I'm not sure since the Bible only says that it was for his protection, but clearly God was being merciful to the first murderer. Perhaps God did this because at the time there was no injunction against murder, which came later in Gen. 9.
 

TC

Active Member
Site Supporter
Its getting close to Easter. History Channel is playing anything and everything related to scripture. The one I came across today claimed Christ was a copycat and the "real" messiah was someone who lived just before Christ's birth. :rolleyes:

I saw a book that claimed Herod the Great was the real messiah and the disciples substituted Jesus for him and fooled the world for almost 2000 years, but his book would set the record straight. :tonofbricks:
 

TC

Active Member
Site Supporter
I believe that Cain knew exactly what he was doing. The New Testament calls what Cain did murder.

1 John 3:11-12
"This is the message you heard from the beginning: We should love one another. Do not be like Cain, who belonged to the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his own actions were evil and his brother's were righteous."


Also in this passage, we can see what his motives were.

What she said. :thumbs:
 

canadyjd

Well-Known Member
Why God gave Cain a mark: I'm not sure since the Bible only says that it was for his protection, but clearly God was being merciful to the first murderer. Perhaps God did this because at the time there was no injunction against murder, which came later in Gen. 9.
And afterward, God showed mercy to Moses (a murderer), and David (a murderer), and Elijah (a murderer), and Paul, (a murderer).

peace to you:praying:
 

Marcia

Active Member
And afterward, God showed mercy to Moses (a murderer), and David (a murderer), and Elijah (a murderer), and Paul, (a murderer).

peace to you:praying:

Yes, he did show mercy but even so, he did say this in Gen. 9 as part of his covenant with Noah:
Whoever sheds man's blood,
By man his blood shall be shed,
For in the image of God
He made man.
 

canadyjd

Well-Known Member
Yes, he did show mercy but even so, he did say this in Gen. 9 as part of his covenant with Noah:
Then Gen. 9 must not be an absolute statement; meaning God does not punish every murderer with death.

It looks like an absolute statment, but it is not. It must be refering to something else... perhaps the practice of the "blood avenger"?

peace to you:praying:
 

canadyjd

Well-Known Member
Blood avenger? I have an inkling of what you might mean, but would you explain?
It was an ancient near east practice. The near relative of the slain person would avenge his blood. That is why God commanded Israel to have cities of refuge.

Deut. 19:4 "Now this is the case of the manslayer who may flee there and live; when he kills his friend unintentionally, not hating him previously....(6) lest the avenger of blood pursue the manslayer in the heat of his anger...."

peace to you:praying:
 

Marcia

Active Member
Then Gen. 9 must not be an absolute statement; meaning God does not punish every murderer with death.

It looks like an absolute statment, but it is not. It must be refering to something else... perhaps the practice of the "blood avenger"?

peace to you:praying:

It sounds pretty absolute in context:
And God blessed Noah and his sons and said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth. 2"The fear of you and the terror of you will be on every beast of the earth and on every bird of the sky; with everything that creeps on the ground, and all the fish of the sea, into your hand they are given.
3"Every moving thing that is alive shall be food for you; I give all to you, as I gave the green plant.
4"Only you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood.
5"Surely I will require your lifeblood; from every beast I will require it. And from every man, from every man's brother I will require the life of man.
6"Whoever sheds man's blood,
By man his blood shall be shed,
For in the image of God
He made man.
7"As for you, be fruitful and multiply;
Populate the earth abundantly and multiply in it."
 

kyredneck

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
It was an ancient near east practice. The near relative of the slain person would avenge his blood. That is why God commanded Israel to have cities of refuge.

Deut. 19:4 "Now this is the case of the manslayer who may flee there and live; when he kills his friend unintentionally, not hating him previously....(6) lest the avenger of blood pursue the manslayer in the heat of his anger...."

peace to you:praying:

Thank you! I just learned something!
 

canadyjd

Well-Known Member
It sounds pretty absolute in context:
I said that as well. It sounds absolute.

If a person "sheds the blood" of another person (i.e. kills them), then God will always allow that person to be killed by another man as punishment.

And yet, God showed mercy throughout history to murderers...Moses, David, Elijah, Paul.... and used them to accomplish His plan of redemption.

Therefore, the statement from Gen. 9 cannot be an absolute statement. If it is not an absolute statment, it must be something else.

BTW, this is not speaking of a "death penalty" as is commonly argued. There are no governments at this point, no Mosaic Law, just Noah and his family.

I believe it is speaking of the ancient near east practice of the "blood avenger".

peace to you:praying:
 
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