About "isms"

[sturgman]

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

The difference between Mormons and us is not that they take scripture out of context it is the fact that they wrote a whole new book to add to the bible and follow that and say that they say that they follow the bible, which they don't.

You crack me up Yelsew. I know all these things must be your attempt at humor, because I know no noe who would say stuff like that for real.

 

[Yelsew]

Originally posted by sturgman:
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

The difference between Mormons and us is not that they take scripture out of context it is the fact that they wrote a whole new book to add to the bible and follow that and say that they say that they follow the bible, which they don't.

You crack me up Yelsew. I know all these things must be your attempt at humor, because I know no noe who would say stuff like that for real.

You're right! Some of what is post is for the humor value.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Originally posted by Yelsew:
The same cliam the MORMONS make!

They claim this discussion should be about doctrine rather than people?? I had no idea.

How do they differ from what you do?

They are not the moderator so they don't get to enforce it!!

They make "Biblical Doctrine" the Centerpiece of their Religion too! They claim scriptures taken out of context as proof texts for their doctrines the same way calvinists do! What's the difference?

The difference is that calvinists do not take Scripture out of context. The difference is that calvinistic soteriology is based on teh writing of Scripture.

I think you knew this was not a good comparison when you started it because it is ultimately turned back on you. Your claims are no different than theirs either, if you want to play that game.

 

[Yelsew]

The difference is that calvinists do not take Scripture out of context. The difference is that calvinistic soteriology is based on teh writing of Scripture.

This is not supportable! Most of the tenets of Calvinism have "proof texts" that are taken out of their biblical context. I've shown that several times to no avail because Calvinists are not open to the truth!

 

[romanbear]

Larry;
A quote from you;
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Some people have apparently forgotten the long standing principle of this forum that it is about doctrine, not about people.
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People make the doctrines and they are part of it
Romanbear

 

[Ray Berrian]

I don't know what seminary some of the brethren attended, but we were always told that you could not interpret Scripture correctly, unless you studied Greek and Hebrew. Some still need to stretch their mind by taking a few course in this aspect of becoming a minister of Jesus Christ.

But then, Augustine knew only Latin and not Greek so I guess we all should have taken the noble example.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Originally posted by Yelsew:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />The difference is that calvinists do not take Scripture out of context. The difference is that calvinistic soteriology is based on teh writing of Scripture.

This is not supportable! Most of the tenets of Calvinism have "proof texts" that are taken out of their biblical context. I've shown that several times to no avail because Calvinists are not open to the truth! </font>[/QUOTE]I have seen you give no evidence of this. I have seen you take verses out of context to support your point. The problem is that you are not open to the truth.

You see, I can say the same thing you say. What is the deciding factor? It must be the text. The text says that God chose us for salvation. You say he did not. Who are we to believe?

 

[Pastor Larry]

Originally posted by romanbear:
People make the doctrines and they are part of it

No, God made the doctrines. The Scripture is the test of them.

 

[Ray Berrian]

God has given us His Word which comes from Him. Fallible men make doctrines. Scripture either supports human dogmatics or they are not backed by His Word to us. found in the Bible.

 

[TheTravelingMinstrel]

Originally posted by Ray Berrian:
God has given us His Word which comes from Him. Fallible men make doctrines. Scripture either supports human dogmatics or they are not backed by His Word to us. found in the Bible.

What about the doctrine of the virgin birth, what about the doctrine of the triune God.
Did man make those up?

 

[Yelsew]

Originally posted by TheTravelingMinstrel:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ray Berrian:
God has given us His Word which comes from Him. Fallible men make doctrines. Scripture either supports human dogmatics or they are not backed by His Word to us. found in the Bible.

What about the doctrine of the virgin birth, what about the doctrine of the triune God.
Did man make those up? </font>[/QUOTE]The Holy Spirit caused the Virgin Birth and the Triune God be be included in Holy Scripture. Man has adopted the reports into doctrines by believing them to be absolutes, in the same manner that all other doctrines become doctrines.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Originally posted by Ray Berrian:
God has given us His Word which comes from Him. Fallible men make doctrines. Scripture either supports human dogmatics or they are not backed by His Word to us. found in the Bible.

The second half is true. Scripture either supports human dogmatics or not. But that was not the question. Dogmatics is not doctrine. Doctrine is the teaching of God's word. God is the one who "made up" the doctrine, not fallible men.

Which brings an interesting point, if fallible men made up the dogmatics that you are so heavily dependent on, you must admit that you could be wrong. Perhaps your fallible understanding has caused you to interpret everything in light of your own fallible mind. So your own conclusions are called into question.

 

[romanbear]

Larry;
Actually you are wrong completely wrong and have been wrong from the beginning. Calvinism is a man made doctrine and is not supported by scripture. Calvinism is a lie and it has been proven to you, but you would rather believe a lie...
Romanbear

 

[Ray Berrian]

Our brother has said, 'God is the one who "made up" the doctrine, not fallible man.'

I take it then that you believe in 'transubstantiation' of the body and blood of our Lord. This is doctrine to one branch of the Christian church.

I believe most strongly in the Trinity, but by exact use of the word, Trinity it is not found in the Bible. The virgin birth is, because His Word tells us that He was born of a virgin.

Regards . . . .

 

[Pastor Larry]

Originally posted by romanbear:
Larry;
Actually you are wrong completely wrong and have been wrong from the beginning. Calvinism is a man made doctrine and is not supported by scripture. Calvinism is a lie and it has been proven to you, but you would rather believe a lie...
Romanbear

I still believe Scripture when it says that "God chose you for salvation from the beginning." That is all I need.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Originally posted by Ray Berrian:
I take it then that you believe in 'transubstantiation' of the body and blood of our Lord. This is doctrine to one branch of the Christian church.

You know better ... Transubstantiation is false teaching, false doctrine. You know good and well that I refer to Doctrine in the biblical sense of the word as the teaching of Scripture. Man did not make up the doctrine of the virgin birth of Christ or the doctrine of the Trinity. Both are taught by God in Scripture.

I believe most strongly in the Trinity, but by exact use of the word, Trinity it is not found in the Bible. The virgin birth is, because His Word tells us that He was born of a virgin.

This is good. It is why I don't have a problem with the name "calvinism." Even though it is not used in Scripture, it is a label that has been attached to what Scripture teaches about salvation.

 

[Ray Berrian]

Pastor Larry,

What you said about Calvinism I would say about Arminianism. The latter most closely portrays Bibical exegesis.

My view: Human Depravity {not Total}, Election Conditioned by Faith In Jesus, Unlimited Atonement, Resistible Grace, and Eternal Security.

Can I get an amen on at least the last one, the security of the believer. As you know Jacob Arminius never really officially, denounced Perseverence of the Saints.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Originally posted by Ray Berrian:
What you said about Calvinism I would say about Arminianism. The latter most closely portrays Bibical exegesis.

But the question is not our respective comments. The question is, What does the Bible say?? That is why I cannot affirm what you believe. For instance, in the text of Scripture, election is never conditioned on faith in Jesus--not one place. You have repeatedly asserted that and I have repeatedly asked you for scriptural support for it. But you consistently refuse to even make an attempt. The reason, we both know, is that you cannot. You can't provide one verse where election is conditioned on faith. But to support your system, you need it and so you asser it. That is the type of "exegesis" we can do without.

Can I get an amen on at least the last one, the security of the believer. As you know Jacob Arminius never really officially, denounced Perseverence of the Saints.

Eternal security of hte believer is taught in Scripture as is the perseverance of the saints. But as many don't realize, the two are not the same.

 

[romanbear]

Yelsew;
A quote from you
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The same cliam the MORMONS make! How do they differ from what you do? They make "Biblical Doctrine" the Centerpiece of their Religion too! They claim scriptures taken out of context as proof texts for their doctrines the same way calvinists do! What's the difference?
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My Reply;
The J.W's do the same as well Amen
Romanbear

 

[romanbear]

Larry;
All the education you have and yet you don't see truth.
A quote from you;
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But the question is not our respective comments. The question is, What does the Bible say??
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The Bible says to me exactly the oppsite of what you claim.

In fact what you claim is only seen by you after you take it and twist it around to suit your purpose.
Romanbear