About that 70ad "Rapture"

Catholic Convert,

I liked your insight.


As St. Peter speaks to the Church, notice the similarities, which they as
Jewish converts of the first century could not help to note. "Holy
nation" "royal priesthood" I am sure this was the subject of much
discussion in those days.

Furthermore, all the believers of the first century continued to attend
temple services until they were driven out. They did not see that they had
to set up another religion, but that they were the continuation and
fulfillment of that which they had been raised in.

All this pointed me to the establishment of the church on earth as the
kingdom of God taking place of the Jewish nation.

Real good. Ray

 

Can you please provide some evidence to this statement?

God Bless

John

 

Nope. Not even gonna try. Can you prove that there were'nt any ?

 

So if I unsterstand you correctly you can make any comment you like without backing it up? I never made any statement that requires any proof. You did. So should we just ignore what you have to write?

God Bless You

John

 

Hey, Guys I'm new to the forum and am out of my league in contributing too much, but I noticed something of interest in Catholic convert's post Catholic Convert you stated:
By noticing the parallels between the services and hierarchy of the OT assembly, it seemed to me that the NT assembly was a continuation of the OT assembly. IF this was true, then there should be something in the NT which pointed to the continuation of the physical and earthly assembly.

You then preceded to give some examples of how the NT fulfilled this objective. I thought your whole post was enlightening and well crafted.
The point I was hoping to add was the celebration of the Eucharist itself has always struck me as being a "continuation" of Christ's sacrifice and not just strictly a commemoration. To check the theory I actually sought insight form a Rabbi, if the theory was right then what Jesus and the twelve were celebrating and instituting at the last supper would be not just a commemorization but a continuation.
I asked the Rabbi, When Jews celebrate the Passover do they do so as a commemorization or as a continuation? His answer was as a continuation. This means Jesus and the twelve being observant Jews would have looked at the celebration in much the same way, with the added portion of fulfilling the blood sacrifice and setting up an eternal sacrifice or as the OT I beleive puts it: a sacrifice from the rising of the sun to the setting thereof. As a
I think it would be an additional thought of your post perhaps that again the institution of the Eucharist and what it fulfils is another form of the continuation of how the new body of beleivers were to assemble and worship.

 

Prove there were no pre-tribbers. Most people here ignore what they want to. I said I refuse to believe there were no pre-tribbers. I stand by that. I don't have to prove there were. Prove there were'nt.

And while yer at it, prove that nonsense about the ice cream. Seems like you guys can say anything you want without backing it up. Should I ignore all those posts ?

 

Hey WAIT a Minute!!

I think I agree with Ed!!

ahhhh now the world is back in order. That is definitely the wrong conclusion.

Look at the ending of Daniel 7 to see "how" the OT Jewish system viewed "the Kingdom of God" and how it would "come to earth".

In fact - read the ending of Daniel 2 - to get the same message.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Hmm or was it "DO this in REMEMBERANCE of Me" Luke 22:19

And "As often as you eat this BREAD and drink this CUP you do show the Lords' DEATH".
1 Cor 11:26

It does not say "you do continue to put the Lord to Death" nor does it say "you do continue to show the DEAD LORD".

Of course this is God speaking in HIS Word.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Amen brother Ray!!

Although God does teach us about a very definite time for the Kingdom of God to come to earth visibly (as we see in Daniel 7 ending and Daniel 2 ending), Christ HIMSELF said "My Kingdom is NOT of this World otherwise My servants would fight and you would not take Me".

That is why in HIS prayer modeled for us we are to pray "Thy Kingdom COME Thy will be done".

So we remain as "strangers on earth" and we "look for the city whose builder and maker is God". Heb 11.

Our citizenship is "in heaven" Hebrews 12

And we receive it - at the return of Christ - the 2nd Coming -

Matthew 25
34 "Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, (1) inherit the kingdom prepared for you (2) from the foundation of the world.



In Christ,

Bob

 

Bob,
You evidentally only view Christ's passion and death as His DEATH, do you attribute any sacrificial significance to His Passion and Death?
Afterall isn't that what his death was-a sacrifice. One that fulfilled God's need for a one-time for all eternity, sacrifice for our sin?
The passover meal was a continuation of the spotless lamb sacrifice of the original passover; the Jews of Christ's time and even today recognized it as such. The New Testament virtually begins with John the Baptist refering to Christ as the "Lamb of God". An obvious reference to the spotless lamb of the passover.

It was a continuation to the participants of the Last Supper and it made sense to them as a continuation of the original passover. Just as the celebrating of the institution of the Eucharist is a continuation of the original. You see it's consistent in it's fulfillment and it's theology. You seem to want to out-Jew the Jews. Ask them how they view the Passover and know that Jesus and His band of Jews viewed it the same way- that is as a continuation of the original sacrifice!
Does any of this make sense to you or are you so blinded by hate to make patently false claims like the notion that Catholics would beleive what you falsely accuse us of beleiving see below:

Neither does the Catholic Church. Get it right one sacrifice for all eternity, a sacrifice in perpetuity if you will but one none the less!

And "As often as you eat this BREAD and drink this CUP you do show the Lords' DEATH".

This must be of some significant to show that as often as you eat and drink of this bread and cup you show Christ's sacrifice. It is this sacrifice that the celebration of the Eucharist is a continuation of.

And of course the above is God speaking His Word and none of us could have said it any better!
Peace in Christ
Stephen

 

I did not mean to imply that Christ ONLY died.

But the MEMORIAL service that HE instituted is specifically and explicitly stated by Christ HIMSELF and by the Apostle Paul - the Church Father of the first order - as a MEMORIAL of His death.

There is no escaping the texts in 1Cor 11 and in Luke as already stated.

Agreed. And it is His "Death" - His ONCE for ALL death - that we are commemorating as HE said "IN Rememberance" of Me. The MEMORIAL is "Remembering His DEATH until He comes" as Paul stated.

Absolutely correct. In fact you might want to add to your list 1Cor 5 "Christ our PASSOVER has been slain".

Passover is the TYPE, the SHADOW that pointed FORWARD to the antitype of Christ's death on the Cross. As a result Christ fulfills that "Shadow" promise by dying not only AS the Passover lamb type predicted - but ON the very DAY of Passover at the very TIME of that sacrifice.

I agree to this extent - it is the NEW form of the Passover and NOW instead of celebrating freedom from slavery in Egypt - it is celebrating freedom from slavery to sin - freedom from damnation - it celebrates the ONCE FOR ALL death of Christ that ALREADY took place 2000 years ago.

The Lamb sacrificed in Egypt and the LAMB sacrificed in the shadow feastday of Passover pointing FORWARD to the death of the Messiah - is just that - A LAMB.

But the Son of GOD was "sacrificed ONCE for ALL" Hebrews 9:27-28 and the service Christ created is "in REMEMBERANCE of Me". As much as some may "not like it" - this is in HIS own words.

We are "Showing the Lord's DEATH" until He comes - a death that was once for ALL, 2000 years ago. And this according to the explicit words of scripture.

Impossible to miss.

Is it viewed that only hatred for the RCC would cause one to believe these texts as I have quoted them? I surely hope not!

I show in the following statement the "WORDING" that would be "needed" to support the "continued sacrifice" idea of the RCC - and show in direct contrast that INSTEAD of finding these quotes in scripture we Actually find what I quoted from 1Cor 11 and from Luke.

Bob said
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It does not say "you do continue to put the Lord to Death" nor does it say "you do continue to show the DEAD LORD".
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The double-speak you attempt above SHOWS why I form the wording to MATCH your idea of something that is NOT a memorial BUT instead is a CONTINUATION.

Because the texts of 1Cor 11 ACTUALLY says that we "show the Lords DEATH until he comes" - I am allowing you only a "little wiggle room" in your need to rewrite the scripture. So if you want to turn it "a little" to say "you do show the CONTINUED death" or "Continual putting to death" to get it to be a "sacrifice that continues in perpetuity" as you seem to "want" in your words above.

The text says specifically that we are showing the killing - the putting to Death of Christ - and as Christ said "in REMEMBERANCE" of Me.

There is just no way to edit/rewrite the scripture here.

We are stuck with it as a Memorial NOT as an ongoing sacrifice.

In fact it ALREADY took place - past tense ONCE for all.

An ONGOING sacrifice is NOT "ONCE" "Christ DIED ONCE for ALL" as Heb 9:28 "Having been OFFERRED ONCE for all" it is completed past tense - it is not "continually OFFERRED" as the RCC would have you believe.

"Christ our Passover HAS BEEN Sacrificed" 1Cor 5:7

It does not say "Christ our Passover is continually BEING sacrificed".


There is no "continuation of Sacrifice" language used in scripture. But you rightly point out that the RCC NEEDS just such language.

A good example of "continuation language" regarding Christ's death that we do NOT find in scripture.

In fact Hebrews 10 also points out that Christ's sacrifice is complete and so has ALREADY put an END to all sacrifices.

In Christ,

Bob