BobRyan
Well-Known Member
In that case Heb 10 is correct - and the ONE time offering on the cross was a "ONCE FOR ALL" single event that put a STOP to ALL sacrifice and offerings.
But that is "just if the Bible is true".
Take it up with the RCC.Originally posted by Living4Him:
Why do some believe that Christ is sacrificed again and again in each and every Mass, when Scripture plainly states that He was sacrificed on Calvary once and for all? Heb 10:10
The RC position is that all these church Fathers are speaking of the mass – and a real sacrifice happening in the Mass – and NOT a remembrance or memorial of a once-for-all sacrifice “finished” at the cross.
Clearly the sacrifice is offered “again and again” rather than “once for all” in the RC system.From http://www.theworkofgod.org/Library/Apologtc/R_Haddad/Bread2.htm
The Didache 14, 1 (C. 90 - 150 AD):
"Assemble on the Lord’s day, and break bread and offer the Eucharist; But first make confession of your faults, so that your sacrifice may be a pure one...For this is the offering of which the Lord has said, ‘Everywhere and always bring me a sacrifice that is undefiled, for I am a great king, says the Lord and my name is the wonder of nations’ (Malachias 1, 11,...)."
St. Clement of Rome, Letter to the Corinthians 44, 4 (C. 98 AD):
"Our sin will not be small if we eject from the episcopate those who blamelessly and holily have offered its Sacrifices. Blessed are those presbyters who have already finished their course, and who have obtained a fruitful and perfect release."
St. Ignatius of Antioch, Letter to the Smyrnaeans 7, 1 (C. 110 AD):
"They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the Flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, Flesh which suffered for our sins and which the Father, in His goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes."
St. Justin Martyr, First Apology 66 (C. 155 AD):
"For not as common bread nor common drink do we receive these; but since Jesus Christ our Savior was made incarnate by the word of God and had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so too, as we have been taught, the food which has been made into the Eucharist by the Eucharistic prayer set down by Him, and by the change of which our blood and flesh is nourished is both the flesh and the blood of that incarnated Jesus...The Apostles, in the Memoirs which they produced, which are called Gospels, have thus passed on that which was enjoined upon them: that Jesus took bread and, having given thanks, said, ‘Do this in remembrance of Me; this is My Body.’ And in like manner, taking the cup, and having given thanks, He said, ‘This is My Blood.’ And He imparted this to them only."
St. Irenaeus of Lyons, Against Heresies 4, 17, 5 (C. 180 AD):
"He took that created thing, bread, and gave thanks and said, This is My Body. And the cup likewise, which is part of that creation to which we belong, He confessed to be His Blood, and taught the new oblation of the new covenant, which the Church, receiving from the Apostles, offers to God throughout the world…concerning which Malachy, among the twelve prophets thus spoke beforehand: From the rising of the sun to the going down, My name is glorified among the gentiles, and in every place incense is offered to My name and a pure sacrifice…indicating in the plainest manner that in every place sacrifice shall be offered to Him, and at that a pure one."
St. Hippolytus of Rome, Commentary on Daniel 22 (220 AD):
"For when the Gospel is preached in every place, the times being then accomplished…the abomination of desolation will be manifested, and when he (the Antichrist) comes, the sacrifice and oblation will be removed, which are now offered up to God in every place by the gentiles."
St. Athanasius, Sermon to the Newly Baptized [Ref. Unknown] (C. 373 AD):
"Let us approach the celebration of the mysteries. This bread and this wine, so as long as the prayers and supplications have not taken place, remain simply what they are. But after the great prayers and holy supplications have been sent forth, the Word comes down into the bread and wine – and thus is His Body confected."
St. Ambrose of Milan, Commentaries on Twelve of David’s Psalms 38, 25 (Inter C. 381-397 AD):
"We saw the Prince of Priests coming to us, we saw and heard Him offering His blood for us. We follow, inasmuch as we are able, being priests; and we offer the sacrifice on behalf of the people. And even if we are of but little merit, still, in the sacrifice, we are honorable. For even if Christ is not now seen as the one who offers the sacrifice, nevertheless it is He Himself that is offered in sacrifice here on earth when the Body of Christ is offered. Indeed, to offer Himself He is made visible to us, He whose word makes holy the sacrifice that is offered."
What about historic RC Catechisms?
Catechism of the Council of Trent (1566):
The doctrine thus defined is a natural inference from the words of Scripture. When instituting this Sacrament, our Lord Himself said: This is my body. The word this expresses the entire substance of the thing present; and therefore if the substance of the bread remained, our Lord could not have truly said: This is my body.
In St. John Christ the Lord also says: The bread that I will give is my flesh, for the life of the world. The bread which He promises to give, He here declares to be His flesh. A little after He adds: Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you. And again: My flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. Since, therefore, in terms so clear and so explicit, He calls His flesh bread and meat indeed, He gives us sufficiently to understand that none of the substance of the bread and wine remains in the Sacrament…
…We therefore confess that the Sacrifice of the Mass is and ought to be considered one and the same Sacrifice as that of the cross, for the victim is one and the same, namely, Christ our Lord, who offered Himself, once only, a bloody Sacrifice on the altar of the cross. The bloody and unbloody victim are not two, but one victim only, whose Sacrifice is daily renewed in the Eucharist, in obedience to the command of our Lord: Do this for a commemoration of me.
The priest is also one and the same, Christ the Lord; for the ministers who offer Sacrifice, consecrate the holy mysteries, not in their own person, but in that of Christ, as the words of consecration itself show, for the priest does not say: This is the body of Christ, but, This is my body; and thus, acting in the Person of Christ the Lord, he changes the substance of the bread and wine into the true substance of His body AND BLOOD.
[\quote]
There is no question about this sacrifice being “created” as real wine is “changed” into “blood”. The mumbo jumbo double-speak that would call the “wine-changed-to-Blood” an “unbloody sacrifice” is meant to persuade the peasants of the dark ages – but ill-suited for the informed thinking people of today.
Again the rambling rationalizing keeps saying that the “body AND BLOOD” that are created are an “unbloody” sacrifice having no blood. The conflicted double-speak could not be more obvious as they try to “get out” of the problem of the “ONE sacrifice. The IT IS FINISHED sacrifice. The event that was “ONCE for ALL”.Catechism of the Catholic Church (1992):
No. 1333:
At the heart of the Eucharistic celebration are the bread and wine that, by the words of Christ and the invocation of the Holy Spirit, become Christ’s Body AND BLOOD. Faithful to the Lord’s command the Church continues to do, in his memory and until his glorious return, what he did on the eve of his Passion: "He took bread..." "He took the cup filled with wine..." The signs of bread and wine become, in a way surpassing understanding, the Body and BLOOD of Christ; they continue also to signify the goodness of creation. Thus in the Offertory we give thanks to the Creator for bread and wine, fruit of the "work of human hands," but above all as "fruit of the earth" and "of the vine" - gifts of the Creator. The Church sees in the gesture of the king-priest Melchizedek, who "brought out bread and wine," a prefiguring of her own offering.
No. 1336:
The first announcement of the Eucharist divided the disciples, just as the announcement of the Passion scandalised them: "This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?" (John 6) The Eucharist and the Cross are stumbling blocks. It is the same mystery and it never ceases to be an occasion of division. "Will you also go away?" (John 6): the Lord’s question echoes through the ages, as a loving invitation to discover that only he has "the words of eternal life" and that to receive in faith the gift of his Eucharist is to receive the Lord himself.
No. 1364:
In the New Testament, the memorial takes on new meaning. When the Church celebrates the Eucharist, she commemorates Christ’s Passover, and it is made present: the sacrifice Christ offered once for all on the cross remains ever present. "As often as the sacrifice of the Cross by which ‘Christ our Pasch has been sacrificed’ is celebrated on the altar, the work of our redemption is carried out."
No. 1367:
The sacrifice of Christ and the sacrifice of the Eucharist are one single sacrifice: "The victim is one and the same: the same now offers through the ministry of priests, who then offered himself on the cross; only the manner of offering is different." "In this divine sacrifice which is celebrated in the Mass, the same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross is contained and is offered in an unbloody manner."
It is also clear that the RCC insists that the mass “IS A SACRIFICE” its only concern is to try to get THOSE sacrifices created in the mass – to be joined to and be the same as the ONCE FOR ALL sacrifice at the cross. They make no bones about trying to solve that glaring problem. But they also confess that they OFFER A SACRIFICE that is NOT as the sacrifice of Christ was OFFERED at the cross. The freely confess that in sacrifice at THE CROSS event and the sacrifices offered at all the Eucharist events differ in the manner of offering and we readily agree the the manner of offering is different."
In Christ,
Bob
[ March 17, 2005, 09:08 PM: Message edited by: BobRyan ]
and when he opened it, all the people stood up: And Ezra blessed the LORD, the great God. And all the people answered, Amen, Amen, with lifting up their heads, and worshipped the LORD with their faces to the ground. Also Jeshua, and Bani, and Sherebiah, Jamin, Akkub, Shabbethai, Hodijah, Maaseiah, Kelita, Azariah, Jozabad, Hanan, Pelaiah, and the Levites, caused the people to understand the law: and the people stood in their place. So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading." Nehemiah 8:5-8