Abraham and Genesis 26:4-5

[HankD]

If your contention (and Hank’s) is merely that Abraham had some sort of written records, there isn’t much (if any) dispute about that. My understanding of Hank’s question had to do with a written law of God’s commands, not a genealogy or history. Again, please forgive me if I am misunderstanding something here.

Modern Talmudic Judaism claims 613 mitzvouth (commandments) in the Torah (1st 5 books of the Bible).

I certainly didn't mean that.

But prehaps he had some writtings preserved from the families of Seth or other believers in Elohim which had some "guideleines" as to sacrifices, tithing and other elements of "Torah" which became included by the Spirit (but not because they were written down by believers) in the later codified and inspired portion of the Word of God called the Torah humanly authored by Moses.

No doubt the Spirit of God was with Abraham and perhaps even in him on occasion (I don't know) so he knew "intuitively" many things about God and had a heart to obey and please Him.

Also God calls him a prophet (nabee) in Genesis 20:7.

This is the first time the Hebrew word "prophet" (nabee) is used of a man.
Although Noah is called "a preacher of righteousness" in 2 Peter 2:5.


HankD

 

[zrs6v4]

Just because it has been passed down doesn't make it so. There is no doubt that there is a message in the stars, and in all nature (Ps. 19:1-6; Rom. 1:20). But that message is not the Gospel. General Revelation affirms God's existence and is enough to make us accountable to God for rejecting Him, but it does not contain the message of salvation. There is nothing saving in the message of General Revelation.

Amen- general revelation is ^

Special revelation= salvation

 

[Allan]

Amen- general revelation is ^

Special revelation= salvation

Please show the scriptures that talk about this 'special' revelation and what it is/how it is different?

There is a difference between general and specific revelation. General being sin, righteousness and judgment. And specific being being the gospel that explains sin, righteousness, and judgment in relation to Christ Jesus.

We find the General revelation in Romans 1:18-32 being given by God Himself (via the Holy Spirit) concerning sin, righteousness, and judgment to come. And they knew and understood it but rejected it and traded truth for a lie.

As opposed to 2 Thes 2:10-12 which speaks specifically about those who reject the truth that could save them. That truth is and will always consist of sin, righteousness, and judgment in relation to and of Christ.

 

[North Carolina Tentmaker]

Well I have always differentiated between the two as general revelation being evidence of God that is available to everyone – the creation vs special revelation being specific information about God revealed to specific individuals, i. e. the Bible. Now special revelation like the Bible can still be passed around and shared with others.

What Romans 1 explains to us is that general revelation should lead to special revelation. As Fred said general revelation is inadequate to save us, the gospel is not there, just enough for us to know that God is there and we need to answer to him. Rom 1:21

Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

explains to us that because the world rejected the general revelation the special revelation was not give to them. The opposite is also true. From the dawn of creation God has rewarded those who did acknowledge him with that special revelation. Heb 11:6 tell us that

he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him

The reason that the wicked are without excuse in Romans 1 is that because if they had responded to that general revelation and sought God he would have revealed the full gospel to them.

 

[Allan]

Well I have always differentiated between the two as general revelation being evidence of God that is available to everyone – the creation vs special revelation being specific information about God revealed to specific individuals, i. e. the Bible. Now special revelation like the Bible can still be passed around and shared with others.

What Romans 1 explains to us is that general revelation should lead to special revelation. As Fred said general revelation is inadequate to save us, the gospel is not there, just enough for us to know that God is there and we need to answer to him. Rom 1:21 explains to us that because the world rejected the general revelation the special revelation was not give to them. The opposite is also true. From the dawn of creation God has rewarded those who did acknowledge him with that special revelation. Heb 11:6 tell us that The reason that the wicked are without excuse in Romans 1 is that because if they had responded to that general revelation and sought God he would have revealed the full gospel to them.

Agreed, Amen, Preach-on Brother! :smilewinkgrin:

 

[Tom Butler]

Genesis 26
4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Two of the Hebrew words used here are Torah and Mitzvouth which indicate written words.

Was there a written word before it was codified and inspired through Moses?

How did Abraham know what these commandments, statutes and laws were before the Law came through Moses?

dare we say "oral tradition" of the Shemites, or were they simply given to Abraham during his life time?

What do you think?

HankD​

Twice in the Old Testament (one in Joshua 10:15) the book of Jasher is mentioned. There is a book you can find on line that is titled the Book of Jasher. Some scholars believe it's the one, others doubt it.

At any rate, it's an interesting read. In one part, Terah, Abram's father is the commander of King Nimrod's armies. Nimrod has a dream that a child born to Terah will replace him, and order's Terah to kill his son. Terah hides his son & wife in a cave, substitutes another dead baby. They are hidden for several years. Then Abram goes to live with Noah and Shem, who teach him of Jehovah God.

Yes, Noah and Shem were contemporaries of Abram.

So before God ever spoke verbally to Abram, he already knew a lot about him, and possibly had already placed his faith in Jehovah.

Is this a true story? Don't know. But some of it is quite fascinating.

 

[North Carolina Tentmaker]

Yes, Noah and Shem were contemporaries of Abram.

So before God ever spoke verbally to Abram, he already knew a lot about him, and possibly had already placed his faith in Jehovah.

Is this a true story? Don't know. But some of it is quite fascinating.

Looking at the genealogies of Genesis it says that Noah lived 350 years after the flood and Shem lived 502 years after the flood. Adding up the dates of his fathers Abraham was born 292 years after the flood so his lifespan intersected Noah's by 58 years and Shem actually lived past Abraham.

 

[OldRegular]

Genesis 26
4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Two of the Hebrew words used here are Torah and Mitzvouth which indicate written words.

Was there a written word before it was codified and inspired through Moses?

How did Abraham know what these commandments, statutes and laws were before the Law came through Moses?

dare we say "oral tradition" of the Shemites, or were they simply given to Abraham during his life time?

What do you think?

HankD​

It has been some time since I read Dr. Henry Morris' commentary on Genesis but I believe he states there were written records before Moses.