Absent from the body = Present with the Lord?

Which Law? Not one verse in Exo thru Deut applies to gentiles living outside the Land or has eternal consequences for anyone. Show me one verse.

 

gentiles could always "join themselves to the Lord" by embracing the covenant (Isaiah 56:1-7).

 

Wopic

By faith Gods love is perfected not law. Therefore Faith which worketh love fulfills the law and against Love there is no law.

The other part all depends on your correct placement of those in Revelation, but thats God Job to teach you.

God bless

Seth3

 

Many assume once we have faith in Jesus Christ there is no more need to keep the law.

Paul himself addressed this concept in Romans 3:31: "Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law."

Faith does not abolish the law, said Paul; Faith establishes and upholds the Law.


Christ in the New Testament discusses HOW to keep the Sabbath, not WHETHER to keep the Sabbath. Please read Mk 2:27-28.

 

Hello, billwald

Here's an interesting article on the Sabbath, if you are interested. Thanks.

http://intercontinentalcog.org/ICGCC/Lesson_Seven.shtml

 

Wopic Faith establishes the law BECAUSE Faith worketh love and against Love there is no law. So as God works in our hearts by faith He teaches us to love one another and grow in love. Its God who works within us to will and do His good pleasure. Thus the law is fulfilled in us who Believe and have received the gift of faith which worketh love that fulfills the law.

God establishes us in love. The law makes nothing perfect. We are perfected by the faith of Christ and through the effectual Grace of God.

God Bless

Seth3

 

1. Martin Luther was born, raised and trained in the errors of the Catholic Church. One can not fault him for carrying over some of those errors into his reform movement.

The view above - differs in no respect from his earlier Catholic training.

2. In 1John 1:9 we are told given the promise "if we CONFESS our sins God IS faithful and just to FORGIVE us our sins AND to cleans us from all unrighteousness".

The RC position is that you don't really have to confess sins to be forgiven and in right standing with God (see infant baptism).

2. The RC position is that although God DOES FORGIVE sins (or maybe it is the priest?) he does NOT cleans from ALL unrighteousness until you undergo purgatory.

Fortunately the RC position is also that the Bible does not mention purgatory - and they are right on that point -- at least.

In Conclusion -

Since non-Catholics are not in a position to accept a purely fabricated doctrine on the "Say-so of the RCC" it is unlikely that you will be able to present an objective, compelling case for it - as it rests solely on the say-so of late RCC story-telling.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Having said that - I must pay Glen credit where credit is due. The text of 2 Cor 5 does not say "TO BE absent from the body IS TO BE present with the Lord".

On that point - he is right.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Seth3

If we love Jesus, we will keep His Ten Commandments (Jn 14).

 

Perhaps I am confused.
One fellow says that suffering of the christians (in purgatory) purges us from our sins not yet purified in this life.
The Bible says;
Heb 1:3 "Who being the brightness of his glory and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;"
This is past tense. They are purged by Jesus Himself. We don't need to do it now.

Another fellow says we ought to keep the law to stay saved, thereby proving we love Jesus.
My Bible says;
Gal 3:1-3
"O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth crucified among you? This only would I learn of you. Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?"
Self explanatory verse.

Another feller pretends to insert the ten commandments into John 14. They are not there. The commandments Jesus is referencing are the two Great commandments. Love God. Love one another.
By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, that ye love one another.

To the post topic.
No. It does not explicitly say that to leave the body means to be instanly with the Lord. Though some have asserted this is implied. Some want to dogmatically say this is indeed what it means, but honestly this is not what it says.

I have my own theories about this verse, which I will keep to myself for now. If one would like to discuss it, p.m. me.

In His service;
Jim

 

In 2Timothy 4:6-8 Paul wrote: "For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing."

Paul explains what he meant by being with Christ. He does not receive his reward immediately at death. But there is laid up a crown of righteousness which the Lord shall give him at that day. What day? At Christ's appearing----His second coming.


To die is gain. In death, there is no knowledge of passing time (Eccl. 9: 5,6,10; Ps. 146: 4). THE NEXT MOMENT IS THE RESURRECTION.

 

Hmmm that is a case where the text is twisted around from saying "it shall NOT be forgiven him in the age to come".... to the mythical text "ahhh yes - but though he is not forgiven in this age he SHALL be forgiven in the age to come".

As nice as it would be to imagine such a text it does not exist.

But we DO have the text that says "IT shall NOT be forgiven him in this age OR the age to come". This addressed the problem of sin - sin NOT forgiven in this life. And Christ points out that we should NOT look to the future life as a place of forgiveness for that which is NOT forgiven in this life.

And "why" would God be so clear on this doctrinal point? Well notice in Heb 9 we find this "for it is appointed unto man ONCE do die and AFTER THAT comes forgiveness from sins not forgiven in this life so that man may be ready for judgment"... ooops! It does not say that at all!

It says "It is appointed unto man ONCE to die and THEN comes the judgment".

Ahhh - yes - that would be the "real Bible".

See?

In Christ,

Bob

 

True.

As Paul says in 1Thess 4 "AND THUS shall we ever be WITH the Lord" speaking of the rapture at the 2nd coming of Christ.

And Christ Himself says in John 14 "I WILL come again in order that WHERE I am there you may be ALSO".

Seems clear enough. God said it -- I believe it.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Jesus is speaking before the cross -- did you want to propose that God was abolishing His own commands before the cross??? What would be the basis for such a belief?

Jesus quoted BOTH the 10 commandments AND the Lev 19:18 command (Love your neighbor as yourself) as well as the Deut 6:5 command "Love God with all your heart". And He quotes ALL of these words (His own Words in the OT) in the Gospel text.

Do you pretend to suppose that something in John 14 indicates that Jesus is really "meaning" to say "OK keep all that I have commanded but I don't mean that you should keep my 10 commandments even now - even before the cross. For I have abolished my own commands - and that is what I really mean to say".

Because if you are - I can see how "KEEP My Commandments" is a hard place to start from in order to end up with "IGNORE My commandments".

Or were you thinking of polytheism such that Jesus is NOT the God of the OT? Two testaments two gods??

I prefer to believe in the Trinity - triune God - One God in three persons.

In Christ,

Bob

 

The text does NOT says "other sins - though NOT forgiven in THIS life - WILL be forgiven in the age to come".

Lacking that text - you insert it. You are arguing from the void of what the text does NOT say.

That is a huge problem as your "primary from of support".

In Christ,

Bob

 

There is only two places you can go my friend when you take your last breath here and that is Heaven or Hell there is no in between there is no way anyone on this earth can pray for someone that has died and pray them into Heaven. This is a personel decision that we all have to make here where we want to spend eternity. We all need to pray for the lost while they are still breathing that God would just convict their heart and minds to come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ before its eternally to late for them. God said today is the day of salvation dont put it off until tomorrow accept Jesus today.John 3:5 Unless one is born of the water and the spirit he cannot enter the kingdom of God .that which is born of the flesh is flesh and that which is born of the spirit is spirit .Do not marvel that I said to you .You must be born again. You have to realize how much you need God and realize all the sin in your life and truley bow down and pray to God to forgive you of all your sins and save you from this terrible place called hell.You have to have Jesus in your heart and he will hold your hand until your safe in Heaven.Baptism is not going to save you if you go down in the water a sinner you will come back out as a sinner. Accept Jesus in your heart let him come in and then show everyone threw baptism what God has done for you.In christian love, susie.