Absolute predestinarian Primitve Baptist Churches in N.C.

[pinoybaptist]

Just for clarification: Sovereign Grace Baptist Church was NOT a primitive baptist Church. It is now dissolved. Also, The current Preacher at Flat Creek Primitive Baptist is brother Wayne Gravely. Very good man. They DO NOT believe in Absolute Predestination but I do attend there and feel at home. I try not to make these issues a point of contention amongst the bretheren. :jesus:

oh, okay, I stand corrected.
and that's a good attitude, brother.
you know, some Baptists, PB's too, will not fellowship with others because they part their hair the other way.
or knot their ties wrong.
lol.

 

[OldSchool]

But now I am curious brother, and w/o running off on a tangent, since you are an Absoluter, do you believe God has “…wrought all our works in us?"

I believe that : "Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ" (Phillipians 1:6)

And that: "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure." (Phillipians 2:13)

And that: " the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it." (1 Thess 5:23-24)


And that Jesus meant what he said: "for without me ye can do nothing."

Peace

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

that's what Paul said, if I may say.....2 Timothy 1:9-10
that God's elect was given grace in Christ Jesus BEFORE the world began, and the gospel merely brings to light life and immortality which they ALREADY have.
and Paul never rebutted himself by stating that that life and immortality puffs off if the possessor never hears the gospel here in time.

Yes a scripture rarely quoted by C&A folks....it's there nonetheless.

2 Timothy 1:9-10 (New King James Version)

9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began, 10 but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel,

 

[salzer mtn]

There are several Primitive Baptist in my area and from visiting them from time to time some do believe in no hell and others believe time salvation.

 

[OldSchool]

There are several Primitive Baptist in my area and from visiting them from time to time some do believe in no hell and others believe time salvation.

Yes sir. I didn't mention the "no hellers" as a third category because i was not sure how many were still around.

The Time Salvation type seems to be the most common around here ( Piedmont N.C.)

I've attended Abbott's Creek Primitive Baptist Church before and they at least historically were Absoluters but I could not quite discern from just one Sermon. Very Kind people though.

Anyone know about Abbott's Creek? or Sandy Creek? they are fairly close for me

 

[pinoybaptist]

There are several Primitive Baptist in my area and from visiting them from time to time some do believe in no hell and others believe time salvation.

whoooo....I didn't know there were other no-hellers outside of the Indiana one.
we had a member who was the pastor's son in that church. much loved member, kind, and I'd say a very warm person. he was a deacon when my wife and I first united with the church.
we had to "let him go" when he tried to bring in their doctrine in our church.
IMHO, time salvation is correct.
I did try to study absolute predestination and compared it with time salvation, didn't work.

 

[OldSchool]

whoooo....I didn't know there were other no-hellers outside of the Indiana one.
we had a member who was the pastor's son in that church. much loved member, kind, and I'd say a very warm person. he was a deacon when my wife and I first united with the church.
we had to "let him go" when he tried to bring in their doctrine in our church.
IMHO, time salvation is correct.
I did try to study absolute predestination and compared it with time salvation, didn't work.

Hey Pinoybaptist, I'm not sure if I'm supposed to do this or not but I copied and pasted a post from a thread back in 2001. This Guy seems to feel like I do on the issue.

Also, I'd like for it to be known that I very much believe in Time Salvation, except I believe that the Author of Time Salvation is Christ and not me. If there is any good at all that I do then he deserves ALL the glory and I deserve none.

Here's the old post brother:

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Jeff Weaver Jeff Weaver is offline
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I am a member of a Primitive Baptist Church which you would probably label Conditionalist (and which label I would reject as inaccurate).

What you wrote there is not really what many who believe or call "Conditional Time Salvation" believe. It may fit some, but certainly not all. Most of the ones who preach such (and I don't go along with it), mean to say is that it is within the individual's power to save themselves from unpleasant situations in time.

If you want the truth of the matter, I preceived you to be one affiliated with the Absolute Predestinarian point of view. I also will tell you that I have attended churches on both sides of the great Primitive Baptist gulf, and there isn't much difference, except for the way folks choose to express themselves. It is a shame, and shouldn't be that way. All on "my" side that I am aware of believe in the absolute foreknowlege of God, and that that foreknowlege can't be thwarted by man. If there are those who would advocate something different, I would say they were in error.

The whole mess got started in trying to decipher the mind and purpose of God. (Its late, and I may not be making sense). Folks about 80 years ago got themselves in a lather over trying to determine the active will and permissive will of God.

Hope it helps.

Jeff.

 

[Yeshua1]

I believe that : "Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ" (Phillipians 1:6)

And that: "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure." (Phillipians 2:13)

And that: " the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it." (1 Thess 5:23-24)


And that Jesus meant what he said: "for without me ye can do nothing."

Peace

ANY NT example of a person saved who did NOT received Jesus as Lord thru faith though?

ANY passage that states that we can go to heaven IF have not received Jesus while on earth in this life?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Three really, if I may say, but it's just me saying this because this third one is right now limited to a certain city in Indiana, but we all know how error is like water, it seeks gravity....this faction is a no-heller....



Well, in the first place, tares or bad fish, just like goats, are not God's children.
They are not part of the elect, never were, because as you see from the Bible, Christ never called His elect goats. to Him, they were always "sheep", and likewise, His elect are to him "wheat".
If we say the disobedient children are the tares, then we teach election as inconsequential.
what does it matter if you're elect or not if in the end your disobedience will still burn you along with the unelect ?
Any shepherd, anywhere, will tell us, I believe, that there ARE hard-headed sheep who seem to be a little bit more stupid than the rest.

We also preach that obedience is NOT OPTIONAL, or at least I do, and so do my pastor, oh, heck, yeah, OUR church does. lol.
You obey the gospel and follow its teachings, you reap the benefits of obedience, natural benefits, you know, good things that flow out of obedience.

You be hard-headed and goat-like, well you reap the fruits of disobedience and sin.
It's natural, these blessings of obedience.
They are not tit-for-tat.
You walk away from the source of life, you darken.
You walk away from water, you dry up.
You commit adultery, well, remember David ?

There you go, ya'll been warned.
That's God's way with His children.
Read the "if you do this, then I will do this" in the Book of Law and we'll see that's how God deals with His people.

See this is the stuff you should be putting on the OLD SCHOOL board.....so that guys like me could have a place to read & interact. Thankfully I just caught it in here.

Also dont say Yall when you move up Noth......they will look at you funny.

 

[OldSchool]

ANY NT example of a person saved who did NOT received Jesus as Lord thru faith though?

ANY passage that states that we can go to heaven IF have not received Jesus while on earth in this life?

I certainly don't have all the answers. But what about the thief on the cross? No one asked him to "receive Jesus". He was quickened by God. There was no completed work on the cross to believe in because at that point Christ had not Finished it. He was saved BEFORE he confessed anything with his mouth.


What about Lydia? "And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard [us]: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul." (Acts 16:14)... Notice Believing didn't save her. No, it wasn't in that order. God opened her heart so that she could believe. Believing came after regeneration. it did not Cause regeneration.

What about old testament Saints? How was the first man Saved? Who quoted scripture to him?

What about Job? Christ was revealed to him and he did not even know his name. Job called him his redeemer. God revealed to Job the resurrection also. This was done without "accepting Christ as Saviour"

What about the picture of the hadean world in Luke 16? Ever notice that the Gulf was already fixed? Some were already in the paradisical side and some were already in the torment side? The one's in the Paradisical side, had they ever heard of Jesus? Did they know his name? Were they not sinners like you and I? Didn't Jesus say that the Gulf was fixed and that passage from one side to another was impossible?

What about babies that Die in infancy?

I believe that infants that die in infancy ARE the elect.

If they have to first believe what will become of them? Can they believe?

Predestination is a doctrine of great comfort... Especially for those who are incapable of believing....

Bless you brother

 

[Yeshua1]

I certainly don't have all the answers. But what about the thief on the cross? No one asked him to "receive Jesus". He was quickened by God. There was no completed work on the cross to believe in because at that point Christ had not Finished it. He was saved BEFORE he confessed anything with his mouth.


What about Lydia? "And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard [us]: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul." (Acts 16:14)... Notice Believing didn't save her. No, it wasn't in that order. God opened her heart so that she could believe. Believing came after regeneration. it did not Cause regeneration.

What about old testament Saints? How was the first man Saved? Who quoted scripture to him?

What about Job? Christ was revealed to him and he did not even know his name. Job called him his redeemer. God revealed to Job the resurrection also. This was done without "accepting Christ as Saviour"

What about the picture of the hadean world in Luke 16? Ever notice that the Gulf was already fixed? Some were already in the paradisical side and some were already in the torment side? The one's in the Paradisical side, had they ever heard of Jesus? Did they know his name? Were they not sinners like you and I? Didn't Jesus say that the Gulf was fixed and that passage from one side to another was impossible?

What about babies that Die in infancy?

I believe that infants that die in infancy ARE the elect.

If they have to first believe what will become of them? Can they believe?

Predestination is a doctrine of great comfort... Especially for those who are incapable of believing....

Bless you brother

god openned the heart and mind of the thief, and he received jesus as his King...

I also hold that God Election decree has salvation made to infants/special needs people, but those able to receive Him will receive him to get saved!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I certainly don't have all the answers. But what about the thief on the cross? No one asked him to "receive Jesus". He was quickened by God. There was no completed work on the cross to believe in because at that point Christ had not Finished it. He was saved BEFORE he confessed anything with his mouth.

Sure he did....he died for those the Father gave him.....the Propitiation was completed.

"It is Finished"

 

[OldSchool]

Thank you everyone for the Warm welcome. It's been a pleasure. The Reason I started this thread is because Google can be a limited tool for locating and reading about each Primitive Baptist Church and what they believe. Most pb's don't have telephones so even an address search can require a little work. When you do find writings, many times they are 150 years old and they have changed their stance or may not even exist anymore I've probably seen most of the websites and directories. One thing I've learned: you can be driving down a country road one day and Lo, and Behold, there will sit a PB Church that you never were aware of.... At any rate, if anyone can suggest trying a particular PB Church in my area the help would be greatly appreciated.. God Bless you all

 

[OldSchool]

Sure he did....he died for those the Father gave him.....the Propitiation was completed.

"It is Finished"

The conversation between Christ and the thief took place BEFORE he Cried "IT is finished" Thus, at that point the work was not complete. "It is finished" is the last thing he said before he gave up the ghost :thumbs:

 

[convicted1]

I cannot Rightly Call myself a Primitive Baptist at this point because I have not been "re-baptized" in a Primitive Baptist Church. theologically however, I believe in Primitive Baptist principles. Which I have spent a considerable amount of time studying.

I believe that the only way one CAN believe on Jesus Christ is if Eternal Life has ALREADY been imparted to him. Believing is a work of GOD. Faith is a gift from GOD not something conjured up in man.

I once heard a story that took place about 200 years ago. There was an African tribesman who belonged to a tribe that worshiped a tree stump that Lightning had hit and burned. He did this for years until one day. All at once he was internally convicted that worshiping the stump was terribly wrong and that he should be worshiping the God that made the lightning AND the tree. He did this despite heavy persecution from his peers. He worshiped an unknown god. Later, he was captured and sold into slavery and came to Amercia. Once he was given liberties he heard a preacher speak of Jesus and his Completed work on the cross. He heard of wonderful pardon. He heard of all the wonderful attributes of the Saviour. All at once the realization shot through him like electricity! Jesus was the GOD in whom he once ignorantly worshiped!

While most folks believe he was not Saved UNTIL he believed on Jesus and had a full understanding of his Character and work, The Old Baptists Believe he was saved LONG before his realization of who did his saving.

Just like the Thief on the cross. At first both malfactors railed against Jesus. Then, suddenly one of them had a change of heart! He called him LORD! He recognized Jesus had a kingdom! Where did the change come from? There certainly was not a preacher handy with a Bible in his had quoting scripture. He was Quickened by God.

What about infants? They can't understand the Gospel. What about mentally handicapped folks?

We believe Christ Actually Secured the Salvation of all those whose names were written in the Lamb's book of life.

To more directly answer the question: I think that All of the elect will come to know who saved them in some capacity or another.

But who would dare to say that when they die they will have a complete and firm understanding of Christology?

Not me.

Primitives believe that Christ does not need any help populating heaven....:thumbs:

This sounds very good...............

 

[convicted1]

Hey Brother OldSchool, there are some PB's in Tennessee. Brother sovereignmercy on here, he is a member of Chatanooga PB church, but he is a pre-trib premillienialist, and I don't know what you eschatology is, but you could send him a PM and find the directions. Also, Mates Creek PB assoc has some churches in Virginia, I am thinking, as well.

Go to www.matescreek.com and you can find a listing of their churches.

 

[OldSchool]

Hey Brother OldSchool, there are some PB's in Tennessee. Brother sovereignmercy on here, he is a member of Chatanooga PB church, but he is a pre-trib premillienialist, and I don't know what you eschatology is, but you could send him a PM and find the directions. Also, Mates Creek PB assoc has some churches in Virginia, I am thinking, as well.

Go to www.matescreek.com and you can find a listing of their churches.

Hey Thanks Brother! That sounds good. I've already registered over on the Old School forum, and I appreciate the invite. Escatology? I've studied this thing until my poor little human mind became Exhausted. :BangHead: Officially, I don't believe that Rev. 20 was written for nothing. I honestly, and without bias, see Christ literally ruling and reigning as a Davidic King. He is the rightful Heir to the throne. Is 1000 years literal? Or is the 1000years just 1 day... the last day? I don't really know, and neither does anyone else if they'll be honest. This is another area that I wish didn't divide the brethren. Each time someone posts something about church locations though it seems to be getting a little closer. :thumbs: Do you, or anyone you know have any info on Abbott's Creek Primitive Baptist Church? Or, perhaps Sandy Creek? They were historically Absoluters and they are only 30 minutes away for me

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Hey Thanks Brother! That sounds good. I've already registered over on the Old School forum, and I appreciate the invite. Escatology? I've studied this thing until my poor little human mind became Exhausted. :BangHead: Officially, I don't believe that Rev. 20 was written for nothing. I honestly, and without bias, see Christ literally ruling and reigning as a Davidic King. He is the rightful Heir to the throne. Is 1000 years literal? Or is the 1000years just 1 day... the last day? I don't really know, and neither does anyone else if they'll be honest. This is another area that I wish didn't divide the brethren. Each time someone posts something about church locations though it seems to be getting a little closer. :thumbs: Do you, or anyone you know have any info on Abbott's Creek Primitive Baptist Church? Or, perhaps Sandy Creek? They were historically Absoluters and they are only 30 minutes away for me

I for one do not.....FYI, I live in New Jersey & there isn't really any Old Schoolers in the area.....so I rely on dialog from fellow Hard Shell Believers to learn & grow.....hope to see you posting in the OLD SCHOOL. :thumbs:

 

[OldSchool]

I for one do not.....FYI, I live in New Jersey & there isn't really any Old Schoolers in the area.....so I rely on dialog from fellow Hard Shell Believers to learn & grow.....hope to see you posting in the OLD SCHOOL. :thumbs:

New Jersey? My wifes Aunt had a beach house in Ocean City we used to go there every year when my kids were little. Small world. FYI... If I lived in Jersey I would attend Welsh Tract Primitive Baptist Church on Welsh Tract road in Newark Delaware. This is where Elder James F. Poole used to preach and they are most assuredly Absoluters. Elder Poole was the original editor of the Primitive baptist paper called the Remnant. (good stuff) Elder Dirkes is the preacher there now. They meet every Sunday I believe. I would be glad to send you audios of that preaching if you wish.. And yes, I look forward to the Old School Board :godisgood:

 

[pinoybaptist]

Hey Pinoybaptist, I'm not sure if I'm supposed to do this or not but I copied and pasted a post from a thread back in 2001. This Guy seems to feel like I do on the issue.

Also, I'd like for it to be known that I very much believe in Time Salvation, except I believe that the Author of Time Salvation is Christ and not me. If there is any good at all that I do then he deserves ALL the glory and I deserve none.

Here's the old post brother:

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Jeff Weaver Jeff Weaver is offline
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I am a member of a Primitive Baptist Church which you would probably label Conditionalist (and which label I would reject as inaccurate).

What you wrote there is not really what many who believe or call "Conditional Time Salvation" believe. It may fit some, but certainly not all. Most of the ones who preach such (and I don't go along with it), mean to say is that it is within the individual's power to save themselves from unpleasant situations in time.

If you want the truth of the matter, I preceived you to be one affiliated with the Absolute Predestinarian point of view. I also will tell you that I have attended churches on both sides of the great Primitive Baptist gulf, and there isn't much difference, except for the way folks choose to express themselves. It is a shame, and shouldn't be that way. All on "my" side that I am aware of believe in the absolute foreknowlege of God, and that that foreknowlege can't be thwarted by man. If there are those who would advocate something different, I would say they were in error.

The whole mess got started in trying to decipher the mind and purpose of God. (Its late, and I may not be making sense). Folks about 80 years ago got themselves in a lather over trying to determine the active will and permissive will of God.

Hope it helps.

Jeff.

Jeff Weaver, yeah, havent' seen him posting for a while now.