Abstaining from Evil

[TheOliveBranch]

This can also be taken in the opposite direction. Someone who claims salvation could live in total disregard of Bible truth and turn someone away by sheer repulsiveness.

This woman was offensive in her practices. Timothy is respecting other christians stands and values.

 

[Baptist in Richmond]

Originally posted by TheOliveBranch:
This can also be taken in the opposite direction. Someone who claims salvation could live in total disregard of Bible truth and turn someone away by sheer repulsiveness.

This woman was offensive in her practices. Timothy is respecting other christians stands and values.

You missed my point. The people who live in "total disregard of Bible truth" are not going to even give credence to the thought of abstaining from the appearance of evil. I am asking as to how far we are willing to take this.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Wow ... nothing like confusion. ... Let me try to clear it up.

Originally posted by TheOliveBranch:
What you are stating is that if it is not a physical reality of evil, then it's ok to do it.

No, that is not what I am saying.

Timothy1769 said that if this is what you believe and you find this in the MV (kind of evil,: as in actual, physical, evil), then the MV's are being doctrinally wrong if the teaching is in any appearance of evil,(as in if it fells wrong, don't do it).

First, that is not what I believe. Second, my point is to focus on what Paul was saying in this verse, not on what may be true from another verse. For instance, it may well be true that we should avoid things that appear as if they are evil. However, that is not what this verse is saying. As I said, perhaps right teaching from the wrong verse. At this point, it doesn't matter what the KJV vs. MV is. It matters what Paul said. The words he used are for actual evil, not something that may appear to be evil but is in reality not.

But in actuality, you are now stating not to abstain from anything???

Again, not exactly what I was saying. There are many things we should abstain from. This verse is teaching that we should abstain from all sorts of evil. As for things that may appear to be evil, that is a subject not contemplated by this verse.

 

[Walls]

I haven't really studied out the chapter, but I believe that abstaining from all appearance of evil means just that.

If my next door neighbor has a child with black fingernails and piercings here and there, I would teach my children to abstain from all appearance of evil. To me anything that can be associated with the "darkside" should be abstained from.

But, I do know that Thessalonians, deals with the second coming and it could be that it is teaching to hold fast to sound doctrine, so that we will be ready for His coming and not be part of the that falling away.

 

[TheOliveBranch]

Hi, Walls,

With this portion of scripture being the end of this letter, I believe Paul is covering a wide range of geneal behaviors. If doctrine were the issue, then we have to look at all the previous verses as pertaining to doctrine also. I don't see it pertaining to prophecy either. The prophetic issues have been touched. I think you are right on your first point, to abstain from anything that looks or makes your conscience feel that something is not right.

 

[dianetavegia]

Originally posted by Walls:
I haven't really studied out the chapter, but I believe that abstaining from all appearance of evil means just that.

And if you and I are wrong.... we still didn't harm our testimony or hurt anyone by staying away from things that might be perceived as sinful lifestyles! However, if we're right, someone who goes into a bar or R rated movie and is seen by an unsaved neighbor......

I really do feel in my heart that we are to do our best to live a holy, Christ-like life for the world to see. We are to, every day, be more and more like Jesus. I'm not missing out on any fun by staying away from even the appearance of evil!

Diane

 

[TheOliveBranch]

Originally posted by Pastor Larry:
As for things that may appear to be evil, that is a subject not contemplated by this verse.

But if the Bible says that I should abstain from all appearance of evil, then how can it not be contemplated by this verse?

 

[TheOliveBranch]

Diane, I agree with you. I would rather abstain from all appearance than to guess at what this means and do the wrong thing.

 

[timothy 1769]

Originally posted by TheOliveBranch:
timothy,

Would you then use a MV if you were to attend a church that uses an MV? I'm not being sarcastic.

I really understand your beliefs. I am from this same persuasion.

Hmm... for these "appearance of evil/weaker brother" verses to apply I would have to have good reason to believe the church in question actually considers KJV use a sin... Do you want me to assume that?

 

[bryan1276]

My brother made a good point on this verse about modern music in churches and the appearance of evil. The motto has always been "sex, drugs and rock n' roll" but now there is this mutant monster called "Christian Rock". It appears every bit like the world with no difference. As to the question about offending with a King James Bible in a modern version church this actually happened to me in a seminary class where i was told not to bring my KJV to class anymore (it didnt say what the prof wanted to prove from his Nestles). The result was a wasted class. We are almost to that point where it is sinful to believe a King James Bible. No doubt that will be the case if the Lord tarries.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Originally posted by TheOliveBranch:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Pastor Larry:
As for things that may appear to be evil, that is a subject not contemplated by this verse.

But if the Bible says that I should abstain from all appearance of evil, then how can it not be contemplated by this verse? </font>[/QUOTE]Because the word "appearance" as you understand it is not what Paul wrote. He used the word "eidos" which means something that is actual, not something that is only "seeming" or "appearing" as something it is not. If you do what Paul says, you will not be caught in evil. No one will see you doing it (i.e., it won't appear to anyone) because you don't do it. That is what this verse means. Your principle may well be valid, and in many cases it is. It is simply not what this verse teaches.

When we study Scripture, we must be committed to preaching or teaching what a particular text says. We cannot use a text that says one thing to preach something else no matter how valid that "something else" might be. In this verse, Paul was talking about avoiding all sorts of evil while holding to the good. Therefore, that is what we should be teaching from this passage.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Originally posted by dianetavegia:
we still didn't harm our testimony or hurt anyone by staying away from things that might be perceived as sinful lifestyles! However, if we're right, someone who goes into a bar or R rated movie and is seen by an unsaved neighbor......

I really do feel in my heart that we are to do our best to live a holy, Christ-like life for the world to see. We are to, every day, be more and more like Jesus. I'm not missing out on any fun by staying away from even the appearance of evil!

I agree, Diane. But the text should not be abused in order to get there. There are plenty of places where that application can be drawn without changing this text. The word of God is a sacred trust. When we use it, we must say from a text, only what God and the human author would say from that text. My biggest fear in preaching is preaching a text different than how the author would preach it. I often imagine the author sitting in my congregation and I wonder if he would be saying amen or rolling his eyes.

The point that a particular position may be safe or wise is not the standard for interpretation. And once we allow ourselves to twist a text (however slightly and with good motive) is the moment we compromise the authority of the text and insert the authority of our own understanding. With all due respect, your understanding of this verse is not the authority. God, speaking through Paul, is the authority.

Consider this example: Your teenage daughter wants to go to the mall and you say, "No, you can't go. You have to babysit." So she babysits her 7 year old brother who wants to go to the bathroom. Your daughter says, "No, Mom said you can't go." Is your daughter right? Of course she is. You did say that. But she took your words out of context and used them to mean something you never meant with them. In so doing, she abused your words. You would admonish your daughter for such a thing because she used your words in a manner different than what you intended. In the same way, it is possible to use God's words different than the manner in which they are intended. When we do, we have compromised God's word and reflected poorly on him.

Your first paragraph may well be wise counsel (and I think it is for the most part). But it is not what this verse is teaching, no matter how much we might like for it to teach that.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Originally posted by bryan1276:
My brother made a good point on this verse about modern music in churches and the appearance of evil.

He may have may a good point but if it was about mere appearance, then it wasn't from this verse. Christian rock is disqualified by this verse because it is evil. Not because it appears so.

As to the question about offending with a King James Bible in a modern version church this actually happened to me in a seminary class where i was told not to bring my KJV to class anymore (it didnt say what the prof wanted to prove from his Nestles). The result was a wasted class. We are almost to that point where it is sinful to believe a King James Bible. No doubt that will be the case if the Lord tarries.

Why don't you give us some more information on this place where you were attending and were told this. That would be very helpful.