Abstinence should be the only policy!

Talk about bad analogies. Using a gun is not a sin. Now if I use a gun to murder someone, it is a sin. But at that point, it is senseless to tell me to use my gun safely while I murder someone.

 

Talk about bad analogies. Using a gun is not a sin. Now if I use a gun to murder someone, it is a sin. But at that point, it is senseless to tell me to use my gun safely while I murder someone. </font>[/QUOTE]I'm glad you get the analogy.

 

Are you an NRA member?

Is passing information about the safe use of guns helping people commit sin with guns?

Would you support people who said that there is no safe way to shoot a gun in order to keep guns out of the hands of children and criminals? </font>[/QUOTE]I would not be handing out information about how to kill someone without getting caught.

 

Actually, it's "if you don't repent and believe, don't put someone else in the position of paying for the consequences of your sin".

 

Gold Dragon,

So you agree that it is senseless to tell people to use guns safely while they murder?

Just as it is senseless to tell people to have safe, illicit sex?

 

Oh yes, I forgot about that verse.

 

Oh yes, I forgot about that verse. </font>[/QUOTE]The scriptural example of that is in Genesis. Adam blamed Eve for his mistake, rather than taking responsibility. And we're still doing it every chance we get: blaming other people for our sin, and trying to get other people to pay the full price for our sin.

 

So if we do not use a condom, we are blaming others for our mistakes? You are so off base in this discussion it is not even funny. The Scriptural mandate is to not sin, to do unto others as you would have done unto you. It is a sin to have illicit sex with someone else. Period. Using a condom does not lessen the sin or make it better. It does not mean the condom user is applying the Golden Rule by having "safe sex".

 

Sin has consequences and those consequences often affect those around the person sinning. We are paying the price right now for Adam's sin because we live under the curse. Achan's whole house died because of his sin. It is a shame that 'innocent' people sometimes receive evil because of the actions of others, but God has designed those consequences to serve His purpose. If sin did not hurt and kill, what would be the motivation for repentence?

 

No. If we are going to engage in extramarital sex, and we refuse to use protection, then we are running the potential of putting the other person at risk.

Having extramarital sex is a sin. No one agrues that. But wilfully putting others at risk is also a sin.

It almost sounds like you're saying that people who are having extramarital sex should spread disease as much as possible. That's kinda like saying "armed robbery is a sin, so a robber should use the biggest gun possible when holding up a place, and if he shoots, he shoot as many people as possible".

Banning asault weapons is a good attempt to lower the use of such weapons during a crime, and i support it. Likewise, use of protection is a good way to lower the risk of std's and pregnancy during extramarital sex. I doubt many people would say that banning assault weapons is unscriptural.

I know that's not what your'e saying, but that's what it sounds like. Likewise, I know it can sound like encouraging condom use is somehow rewarding sin, but it is not.

 

Nope, I love them and tell them about the Gospel. If they get sick with Aids or whatever, I love them by offering aid and help, and I tell them about the Gospel.

You can go ahead and pass out condoms. </font>[/QUOTE]Oh great. I'm sure that will be real comforting to the child bride who was just infected with AIDS by her adult husband. If you don't care enough to look after her physical well-being, why should she trust you when you talk about her soul?

 

How did I not look after her physical well-being? By not giving her husband a condom whenever he has illicit sex? Are you kidding me? Let me get this straight, you are holding me responsible for her husband's illicit sex?

You see, that's what gets me with this whole condom crap - it makes us feel guilty for not "educating" the guy, but nothing is said about his sexual immorality. Here's an idea - maybe if some countries in Africa made it a capital offense to have extramarital sex and actually enforced it, then it might make a dent in their AIDS problem. That would deal with the root offenders. Drastic times call for drastic measures.

Better yet, let's hope that the Gospel takes root and the sanctification of His people begins to transform African society and morality.

 

No. As soon as you engage in extramarital sex, you have put the other person at risk - both spiritual, emotionally and physically. Using a condom doesn't lessen your offense.

 

No, if I told a bank robber to kill as many people as possible since he is already made up his mind to kill some, it would be like telling a fornicator to fornicate as much as possible with as many people possible. We are not saying that; we telling them not to fornicate at all. You are telling them if they fornicate, do it "safely". That's like telling the bank robber to commit his crime safely. It's just plain idiotic, that's what it is.

 

No, I'm holding you responsible for not warning him to take all steps not to put his wife at risk, including first of all not having extramarital sex, secondly wearing a condom while having extramarital sex, and thirdly wearing a condom while having sex with his wife.

Of course he is responsible, but I don't see how sitting back and saying, "I told you so," does anyone a bit of good except possibly helping us feel a bit more self-righteous.

And there is not the slightest likelihood of Africa in general making extramarital sex a capital offense. If you sit around waiting for that to happen to cut the death rate, you'll be waiting a long time.

Yeah, that would be great, but it's not likely as long as we're twiddling our thumbs and telling innocent women and children, "We're sorry you're dying of AIDS, but at least we didn't facilitate your husband or father's sin by helping him prevent infecting you. Maybe once you all are dead he'll see the error of his ways!"

 

If only we could spread the Gospel of Christ as fast as aids is spreading then pray that God will intervine and stop the epidemic. We can spread the seeds of the Gospel and tell people about how they are spreading Aids and other STDs but unless the Holy Spirit convicts them and they decide to do somthing about their own situtation then whose fault is that. Throwing fault around never solved anything anyways.

 

I'll take my chances at judgment day. I'm quite confident that promoting condom usage is not part of any Biblical mandate, whatsoever, period, nada.

I'm sorry you see the sharing of the Gospel and caring for the afflicted, which is what I have promoted here, to be tantamount to saying "I told you so." I have not said that at all, nor do I feel a bit more righteous than any other sinner on this planet. My righteousness is found in Christ alone.

Hey, it was just a suggestion, somewhat tongue-in-cheek, knowing that it's not really going to happen. Although I do think it would work better than condoms, because if you sit around passing out condoms hoping it will cut the death rate, you'll be waiting a long time.

Once again, I'm never ceased to be amazed on this board. I never thought I would be derided for hoping that the Gospel would prosper. Whew! I'm done.

 

Once again, I'm never ceased to be amazed on this board. I never thought I would be derided for hoping that the Gospel would prosper. Whew! I'm done. </font>[/QUOTE]You certainly read into that. It's great if the Gospel prospers, and it's great to hope that it does, but if we don't do anything practical to help people who need it, our hope is likely to be in vain.

Like TexasSky said, how are we helping protect the innocent? Your choice is to do nothing until they are infected with AIDS, and then I suppose you'd give them antiviral medication. However it's best if they're not infected at all.