Accepting new church members

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Not at all. The fortunate thing in my little neck of the woods is that, while not all churches agree on eschatology, we are by and large in agreement on soteriology. But we would welcome in anyone holding to 5-pt Calvinism, or however-many-point-Calvinism, so long as they recognized that we are still an evangelical congregation where preaching is concerned. I have no qualms at all about sitting in worship service with amils, premils, or pre-trib-dispys. So long as we recognize the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the foundation of our lives, we should be good. (For the record, I'm more "Free Will, Free Grace" Baptist than anything [my Pastor claims the heading of Missionary Baptist] and I have been amil all my life.)

I realize how my initial post that you quoted, EWF, is a bit unclear. I should have clarified that we tend to use the term "sister church of the same faith and order." That means we don't accept a membership letter from a Church of God, or Lutheran, or Pentecostal. Those folks, if desiring to join with our church, would require baptism into the church. Such is our tradition. That being said, anyone is welcome to join us in worship and to come as often as they like. They just won't have the same input on church dealings and officer elections as a "member in good standing" would have.

Does that make better sense?

My belief is that if a person is born again (under any Christian Church denom, or not) then that is the power of the holy spirit & the grace provided to the individual---the wind blowith where it wills....so yes a earthly church can & should ask questions to verify authentic HS experiences but what I see most of these churches (in my area) is nothing short of manipulation to becoming what they are....and I dont go that way. What is important to me at least is that they are authentic born again believers & that they have a strong desire to further the cause for Christ.

 

[PreachTony]

My belief is that if a person is born again (under any Christian Church denom, or not) then that is the power of the holy spirit & the grace provided to the individual---the wind blowith where it wills....so yes a earthly church can & should ask questions to verify authentic HS experiences but what I see most of these churches (in my area) is nothing short of manipulation to becoming what they are....and I dont go that way. What is important to me at least is that they are authentic born again believers & that they have a strong desire to further the cause for Christ.

I hear you. My personal belief is that salvation, that experience of grace, is a personal moment between you and God. Now, you'll want to share it with others, but it is still your experience. If you come up and have a testimony and desire to be baptized, then I think you should be baptized. If you've moved too soon, or if you realize that you weren't saved when you thought you were, and you later work out your own salvation with the Lord, then you own up to it before the church. We'll baptize you again. Like I say, it's between you and the Lord.

I've seen some local bigger churches actually require candidates for baptism to take a two or three month class, after which you have to write an essay detailing your "faith journey" and why you want to be baptized. I can only assume if your paper doesn't get a passing grade you don't get dunked. :tongue3:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I've seen some local bigger churches actually require candidates for baptism to take a two or three month class, after which you have to write an essay detailing your "faith journey" and why you want to be baptized. I can only assume if your paper doesn't get a passing grade you don't get dunked. :tongue3:

And you wonder why folks are turned off by organized religion!:tear:

 

[OldRegular]

I will 3rd that.:thumbs:

Fine looking head of gray hair you have sprouted there. Can't say much about the long face under it!

 

[Yeshua1]

From another thread


I have often seen in churches - that voting in a new member is only a formality - after a person desires membership.

As Deacon stated - do the Elders, Deacons, pastors, ect actually examine potential members?

What should be bought up?
Should the candidate be in 100% agreement with the church doctrine statement.

What is off the table?

and let the argument begin....

One of the Elders should speak to the potential member, and have them express what they believe in and why, and how they view salvation and what it means to "follow Christ"..

And as to being in 100 % agreement with the church statement of beliefs, isn;t the Bible ALONE 100 % to what we have to agree with?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Fine looking head of gray hair you have sprouted there. Can't say much about the long face under it!

You will note, if you look closely, that he is poking himself in the eye. That about sums up my opinion of him and this entire blasted administration. :tear:

 

[Reformed]

From another thread


I have often seen in churches - that voting in a new member is only a formality - after a person desires membership.

As Deacon stated - do the Elders, Deacons, pastors, ect actually examine potential members?

What should be bought up?
Should the candidate be in 100% agreement with the church doctrine statement.

What is off the table?

and let the argument begin....

We have a discussion with potential members to determine whether:

a) The have a credible profession of faith.
b) They are not currently under church discipline from a previous local assembly.
c) To make sure they are not leaving problems encountered/created at another church without reconciling those problems.
d) They have been scripturally baptized.
e) They understand our church doctrine and practices.

If there are no red flags we present them before the membership to be voted on.

 

[Tom Bryant]

From another thread


I have often seen in churches - that voting in a new member is only a formality - after a person desires membership.

As Deacon stated - do the Elders, Deacons, pastors, ect actually examine potential members?

What should be bought up?
Should the candidate be in 100% agreement with the church doctrine statement.

What is off the table?

and let the argument begin....

We ask questions about their salvation experience and whether they have been baptized by immersion after salvation.

In terms of their agreement with our church's doctrinal statement, we don't quiz them about Calvinism or their eschatology. We are not Calvinist and are pre-mill. but don't demand it of members.

 

[Salty]

... we don't quiz them about Calvinism or their eschatology. We are not Calvinist and are pre-mill. but don't demand it of members.

Suppose a number of Calvinist and pre-mill was to join your church -

1) Would they be allowed to teach their doctrine in SS or other Bible study?
2) When there were sufficient number, would they then be able to change the doctrine statement of your church?

From another BB thread:

"I am unashamedly Apostolic. Been down many roads, received much grace, but through it all, the truth of the Word has been a calling point for me time and again. I am not ashamed to say I believe in one God and His name one. I am not ashamed to say I hold to Jesus name baptism. I am not ashamed to say I believe in Holy Ghost baptism. I am not ashamed to say I believe in holiness, in repentance, in a right and wrong according to the Word of God, and that we must stand for truth."
would you vote for this person to be a member of your church? :

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

We have a discussion with potential members to determine whether:

a) The have a credible profession of faith.
b) They are not currently under church discipline from a previous local assembly.
c) To make sure they are not leaving problems encountered/created at another church without reconciling those problems.
d) They have been scripturally baptized.
e) They understand our church doctrine and practices.

If there are no red flags we present them before the membership to be voted on.

by understanding of church doctrine, do you mean agreeing to it....and what if they dont agree?

 

[Reformed]

by understanding of church doctrine, do you mean agreeing to it....and what if they dont agree?

I mean prospective members should understand what the church believes. That does not mean the prospective member has to agree with everything.

Our church has, as its doctrinal statement, the 1689 Second London Baptist Confession of Faith. If you can want to become a member of our church you agree to be exposed to teaching in line with what we believe. You agree not to teach contrary to what the church believes. There are members of our church who are not Calvinists, but they know what we believe and are content with it.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I mean prospective members should understand what the church believes. That does not mean the prospective member has to agree with everything.

Our church has, as its doctrinal statement, the 1689 Second London Baptist Confession of Faith. If you can want to become a member of our church you agree to be exposed to teaching in line with what we believe. You agree not to teach contrary to what the church believes. There are members of our church who are not Calvinists, but they know what we believe and are content with it.

Yes but for a fellow like me ..... I would not be so ready to take that oath. What if in my studies I found areas of the 1689 I fervently disagreed with......then I would be duty bound to either shut up or break ties with the church I committed to.

 

[Reformed]

Yes but for a fellow like me ..... I would not be so ready to take that oath. What if in my studies I found areas of the 1689 I fervently disagreed with......then I would be duty bound to either shut up or break ties with the church I committed to.

We do not require members to personally agree with our doctrinal statement. You can disagree with us. You just cannot subvert the teachings of the church. I think most churches would take that stand.

If providence lead me to no other choice but a Synergistic church, I would attend and keep my mouth shut. It would not be my place to teach contrary to what the church believes. That does not mean I condone our accept Synergistic teaching. It just means I am bound by providence and would still choose to worship with God's people.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

We do not require members to personally agree with our doctrinal statement. You can disagree with us. You just cannot subvert the teachings of the church. I think most churches would take that stand.

If providence lead me to no other choice but a Synergistic church, I would attend and keep my mouth shut. It would not be my place to teach contrary to what the church believes. That does not mean I condone our accept Synergistic teaching. It just means I am bound by providence and would still choose to worship with God's people.

So you are putting a premium on corporate Worship over genuine Belief-----how is that so? Lets say that providence leads you away from churches that have a corruptible influence on your God Given Beliefs.....and providence even opened your eyes to the suggestion that the area providence put you in was void of God honoring churches....even showed you why they were a stench in His nostrils, what would you do then? Would you......ahhh no.....Please give me your answer "Reformed"..... Im curious what a genuine real life pastor would do!

 

[Reformed]

So you are putting a premium on corporate Worship over genuine Belief-----how is that so? Lets say that providence leads you away from churches that have a corruptible influence on your God Given Beliefs.....and providence even opened your eyes to the suggestion that the area providence put you in was void of God honoring churches....even showed you why they were a stench in His nostrils, what would you do then? Would you......ahhh no.....Please give me your answer "Reformed"..... Im curious what a genuine real life pastor would do!

EWF, I am not going to get into the weeds with you on this topic. There is no perfect church. As long as human beings are in the church there will always be issues. People like you keep themselves out of local churches thinking that they have the moral or ethical high ground. They do not realize that the problem begins with them. That is all I am going to say on this topic. I am done.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

EWF, I am not going to get into the weeds with you on this topic. There is no perfect church. As long as human beings are in the church there will always be issues. People like you keep themselves out of local churches thinking that they have the moral or ethical high ground. They do not realize that the problem begins with them. That is all I am going to say on this topic. I am done.

Its clear that you operate off of circumstantial arguments vs getting down to the real hard evidence of the thing. Its very easy to critique a person & an area from your lofty clergy position as apposed to coming out there & seeing for yourself. So be it. Your done.....thats your charge. I'm a long way from done......cant happen if its Gods will. Either this place is Sodom (heaven forbid) or its Nineveh. Perhaps you have been away from NJ too long..... because for too long it had fallen into a prosperous deep & happy sleep. The inescapable consequence of this deep & happy sleep is spiritual & moral decline. And the smart ones, they are escaping in droves.

So is NJ on the decline? Have we reached the point of no return as did Sodom? Or is there still hope for the once prosperous "Garden State?"

Since you are not here any longer & don't have a front row seat, I will let you off the hook to some extent. But we need churches brother....desperately that preach the WORD. So send men here.....do not rely on your disallusioned understanding of the area.....the people must give up their evil ways & their violence that is so prevalent today as never was before. They must sincerely embrace God & Christ as Lord. Let there be revival.

In my studies I can begin to appreciate the prophet Micah solution to this areas impending fate (indeed America's fate) IE We as a God Fearing people need to 1) act justly, 2) love mercy & 3) walk humbly with the Lord. So I can only affect my own community & thats my Providential charge. So now I'm done explaining. Good night!

 

[Tom Bryant]

Suppose a number of Calvinist and pre-mill was to join your church -

1) Would they be allowed to teach their doctrine in SS or other Bible study?
2) When there were sufficient number, would they then be able to change the doctrine statement of your church?

From another BB thread:

"I am unashamedly Apostolic. Been down many roads, received much grace, but through it all, the truth of the Word has been a calling point for me time and again. I am not ashamed to say I believe in one God and His name one. I am not ashamed to say I hold to Jesus name baptism. I am not ashamed to say I believe in Holy Ghost baptism. I am not ashamed to say I believe in holiness, in repentance, in a right and wrong according to the Word of God, and that we must stand for truth."
would you vote for this person to be a member of your church? :

No, they would not be able to teach SS. Membership requirements and leadership requirements are different issues.

Could they at some point vote to change our Statement of Faith? Possibly. But not under my watch and not with the leadership we now have.

About your quote, it would de[end on what they meant by "Holy Ghost baptism". Do they mean that the Holy Spirit comes upon a believer at salvation? The answer is yes. If they believe that there is a 2nd work of grace that is evidenced by speaking in tongue, etc. The answer is no.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

No, they would not be able to teach SS. Membership requirements and leadership requirements are different issues.

Could they at some point vote to change our Statement of Faith? Possibly. But not under my watch and not with the leadership we now have.

About your quote, it would de[end on what they meant by "Holy Ghost baptism". Do they mean that the Holy Spirit comes upon a believer at salvation? The answer is yes. If they believe that there is a 2nd work of grace that is evidenced by speaking in tongue, etc. The answer is no.

I don't want to appear like a wise guy here but why would an individual choose your brand of church over a Calvinistic 5P church if you impose restrictions on their ability to take a leadership role? In all honesty, wouldn't it be better for them to seek out a church more in tune with their own soterology? (sic)

Conversely, I would not expect an individual to be totally comfortable in a Doctrines of Grace type church who is not orientated that way.....it just seems that these doctrinal themes do play an important part in defining a persons choices in a worship environment.

 

[Tom Bryant]

I don't want to appear like a wise guy here but why would an individual choose your brand of church over a Calvinistic 5P church if you impose restrictions on their ability to take a leadership role? In all honesty, wouldn't it be better for them to seek out a church more in tune with their own soterology? (sic)

Conversely, I would not expect an individual to be totally comfortable in a Doctrines of Grace type church who is not orientated that way.....it just seems that these doctrinal themes do play an important part in defining a persons choices in a worship environment.

No, you're not being a wise guy, and I agree. But some have chosen us. It may be that the reformed who are members here don't see what some see as major as a deal breaker. They see other things as more important.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

No, you're not being a wise guy, and I agree. But some have chosen us. It may be that the reformed who are members here don't see what some see as major as a deal breaker. They see other things as more important.

Like......????