According To Baptist Doctrine

[Dustin]

Yeah, that wasn't the most profitable thing to say, I apologize. But for the record, I wouldn't go see the movie, don't like the movies much.

 

[bmerr]

Here's the key: It's talking about inheriting the Kingdom, not whether or not someone is saved.

Hope,

bmerr here. Can one inherit the kingdom without being saved? Can one be saved without inheriting the kingdom? If the answer to either of these questions is "yes", please explain.

In Christ,

bmerr

 

[Hope of Glory]

Hope,

bmerr here. Can one inherit the kingdom without being saved? Can one be saved without inheriting the kingdom? If the answer to either of these questions is "yes", please explain.

In Christ,

bmerr

One must be saved to even receive the seed, as far as the Kingdom message is concerned. The Kingdom message is not for the unsaved.

However, inheritance is a family matter.

When you die, does the stranger down the street inherit from you? (OK, in this crazy world today, they will take your estate with an estate tax and distribute it, but this is a modern invention.) But, those who inherit from you are in your family. (Not necessarily "family" as in blood family, either.)

Only those who are saved can have an inheritance.

But, is it going to be the better part of the inheritance, or is it going to be a mere pittance?

Take Jacob and Esau for example. Many people say that one is saved and the other is unsaved, but guess what? Both are in the family, and both got an inheritance, and both got a blessing. It's just that Esau did not esteem the inheritance of the firstborn. He sold it for fleshly pleasures. Jacob, flawed though he was, esteemed the better inheritance and he worked for it.

Both got something by being in the family, but one got more than the other.

Go back to the children of Israel: The instant they left Egypt, they were saved; they were in the promised land (Genesis 15:18). Then, they followed in baptism (Red Sea), then wandered in the desert, working toward the land Flowing with Milk and Honey (a picture of the Kingdom).

This is a picture of Christians today. Saved, the instant they believe, but they may lose thier lives (souls) on the journey toward the better part of their inheritance. Some of the children of Israel didn't want to work quite as hard, so they settled for land outside the Kingdom, just as many Christians do today.

But, inheritance is a family matter. You don't inherit spiritual salvation, that's a gift, that is based on the faithfulness of the Lord. Your inheritance is based upon your faithfulness; that's the salvation of the soul.

There is no need to try to justify two things that seem to be contradictory, but are not. You will find some passages that seem to offer security and others that say that if you remain faithful, you will inherit it. There's no contradiction, just two separate things being discussed.

 

[Gershom]

PS. I KNOW MY BEING A MESSIANIC JEW (A JEW FOR JESUS)

Are you Jewish? Truly Jewish?

 

[Marcia]

Star of David, you didn't specify whether Bob was practicing homosexual sin or not. You just said he is homosexual. There is even controversy in that since some say that one practices homosexuality but there is no such thing as a homosexual. And certainly one is not born so.

I prefer to say that a person may have homosexual urges, for whatever reason, but either he resists or gives in to them.

Either
1. Bob knows homosexual practice is wrong and he is fighting these urges and depending on Christ to stay celibate and also asking for change of these desires
or
2. Bob is giving in to homosexual desires and trying to rationalize or justify them.

In case #1, this could be a believer. It's like an alcoholic trying not to drink, or a violent person trying not to be violent, or a drug addict attempt to resist drugs. We all have our battles.

In case #2, if Bob doesn't feel convicted soon after his professed faith in Christ and continues to practice this homosexual lifestyle, I would say he was never saved. I have heard of gay people being saved and not seeing the sin of it until maybe a couple of months after salvation, but when they saw it, they quit. I personally know a married couple who were living together before being saved, They were both saved around the same time but continued to live together, not realizing it was wrong. They did realize it, but it was a few months later.

This relates to groups like the Metropolitan Community Church, which is for homosexuals. The members claim to be Christian but they do not think practicing homosexuality is wrong. We see this now in the Episcopal Church as well, with its gay bishop in New Hampshire who lives with his male partner.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Marcia,

I agree. A Christian will struggle with sin as is clearly seen in Romans 7. A lost person does not struggle with his own personal sin nature and his own personal sin whatever it may be. As a matter of fact, they embrace their own personal sins, whether they be pride, self righteousness, slander, murder, homosexuality, or whatever else they might be involved in. They actually see nothing wrong with it. Struggle with sin = sanctification. No struggle with sin = lost person.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[LeBuick]

I prefer to say that a person may have homosexual urges, for whatever reason,..

For the same reason the klepto wants to steal and false words just flow from the liar.

Problem I find is society is starting to accept this life style just as we have fornication. Who's next, should a murderer get a van and put human exterminator on the side?

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Marcia,

I agree. A Christian will struggle with sin as is clearly seen in Romans 7. A lost person does not struggle with his own personal sin nature and his own personal sin whatever it may be. As a matter of fact, they embrace their own personal sins, whether they be pride, self righteousness, slander, murder, homosexuality, or whatever else they might be involved in. They actually see nothing wrong with it. Struggle with sin = sanctification. No struggle with sin = lost person.

Joseph Botwinick

Refreshing to read your clear and simple thinking! Of such things consists Truth.

 

[STAROFDAVID45]

Gersham

DEAR GERSHAM, VERY MUCH JEWISH, MY MOTHER WAS FROM ISRAEL. SHE DIED WHEN I WAS 10. YESHUA IS MY LORD AND MY GOD.:type:



THANK YOU
STAROFDAVID45

 

[Rhetorician]

Sin after Salvation

Gentlemen,

Add this to the mix:

I have an evangelist friend who says:

"Sin in the church (of whatever kind) doesn't concern me;

Unconcern over the sin in the church is what concerns me!"

Take this and try to apply to the homosexual discussion above.

sdg!

rd