ACCREDITED?

It is our belief that the the KJV is the closest
version to the Textus Receptus. All others are paraphrased and/or verses have been eliminated.
Besides, it was good enough to save millions of souls BEFORE this century - if it ain't broke, don't fix it!

And I am just recommending this school because I know how good it is. I am not saying it is BETTER than any particular school, but I know that even though it is not accredited, you will receive a top notch Bible education. I know the Pastor and what his prayer and directive is. He believes in the Great Commission as the number one priority in a Christian's life.

in Christ
Debbie C

 

Debbie

Thanks I seem to recall that you stated in your first post that it WAS "the best."

I'm sure you know that you and I disagree re the KJV. But that is OK.

We all have our own measures of what is good or bad.

Thanks again,

Bill

 

Paid

Thanks for your explanation.

re the library: while the accreditational team may not know(and I would hope a team looks at the sort of books therein and not just at the number of books) whether or not it is being used with good results, the term does know that if the library is not there, it cannot be used at all. But, as you say, that hardly is enough.

likewise,

re the faculty: While the accreditational team may not know whether those with fine PhDs actually are rigorously teaching, the team does know that such teaching could not occur at all unless the faculty was qualified. But again rigor and not the possibility of it should be the measure of accreditation.

So, how might the effects of a good library and a fine faculty be measured in terms of their practical and visible results on students?

idea: Why not instead of looking just at the things which seem coincidental to learning, as faculty and library, look ALSO at students' products as responses on subjective exams and term papers in order to determine if the library and faculty are actually causing or requiring (not just allowing) good learning to occur?

Bill

 

You are right on all points. I agree. Accreditation is just not a cut and dried issue as some suppose.

 

Of course--my illustration was overly simplified. The type and scholarship of the books would be important. A large public library, although it contains the requisite number of volumes, would not be suitable for academic research. The library should contain scholarly works in the areas that the college or seminary offers degrees. When PCC was founded, they bought the library of a defunct college but I doubt if the religion section met their needs adequately. Of course, they have had time to work on this area and I am sure that they have the necessary theological works now.

On the other hand, the library is becoming less of a factor in the education equation. With electronic resources, one is less dependent on print and paper media, especially when researching journals. Also, grad students travel more and have access to specialized collections at other institutions. While doing graduate work at a smaller Christian college, I did my research at several large secular universities with libraries having over a million volumes. On the other hand, I think students are using libraries less and less according to my observations. Recently, I found college libraries to be almost deserted. As a grad student at a large state university, I can remember having to search for an empty study cubicle. Fortunately, TA’s (graduate teaching assistants) had some privileges and perks back then.

Higher education is changing. The old standards for assuring quality education are becoming less relevant. For example, dormitories with study lounges are passé. Even college research laboratories facilities are not as indispensable. My second cousin, who earned her Ph.D. in chemistry, did her research in labs around the country and in Germany away from her university. We are seeing new research partnerships with industry. I can someday envision a DE school without any traditional campus and research lab facilities awarding a Ph.D. in chemistry by partnering with industry for graduate student research. UNISA, I think, does something similar to this now.

Personally, I am spending less and less time in libraries doing research. There are weeks that I do not even go to a library. Some of this may be due to my maturing (i.e. read: getting older) and the collecting of specialized materials in my personal library for my areas of interest but I do much of my research for teaching and writing via electronic recourses. Unfortunately, this can be expensive, since the best sources are pay by the article or subscription, unless you have an account through an academic institution.

 

Paid

Maybe I'm just parroting you, butI am becoming very interested in the notion that students' achievements and not schools' resources should be stressed in the accreditational process.

EG, instead of determining the number or quality of books in the library, weigh the use of resources in terms of numbers, quality ,and correctness in student written work products.

Or instead of counting the degrees of the faculty, measure in addition the effects of the faculty on student learning.

That might require the establishment by accreditors ,with input from schools and experts in higher Christian Ed, of sets of benchmarks similar to that used in public grammar through high schools. Every subject as Math or Science, English or Reading has specified what the student should actually be able to do at a particular grade level. That is, the accomplisments of the student are assessed not just the facilities of the school.

Were the benchmarks used by accreditational teams in place, then those teams could :

first evaluate input to learning as curriculum, course objectives, class materials , assignments, teaching methodology, and ways of measuring progress.

Is the student merely required to recall data or is the student required also to exhibit higher levels of comprehension as summarization, analysis, restatement, and criticism in the learning activities in which he engages?

then, the team could evaluate student output by observing his participation in discussions, exams, and papers to see if the course objectives are being fully met. The team might even interview students.

Fun to think about it.

Bill

 

Hey UZThD

Yes! Fun to think about - - - but like the devil to follow through on it. If something like this happened, then an Intro to Systematic Theology offered at one seminary would be honored at all seminaries! Students wouldn't lose credits in the transfer process.

Lloyd

 

===


Hi Rhet:

As you know I did the Doctor of Theology in Systematic Theology entirely by research at Unizul.

I think that doing a research only doctorate in Bible/Theology can be most effectively done when the student has a broad base of related coursework and prior reseach experience as in completing a master's thesis.

IMO some difficulties may arise when one earns a masters by thesis only and then does the doctorate too in the same manner. This can be done in the South African system, and I don't much approve of it. In such a case the only coursework would be done as an undergraduate. That IMO is deficient.

In contrast, my route of preparation to do the ThD research was : BA in Bible, 5th year ThB in Greek, MA in Theology, another two years to acquire MDiv Equivalency (Western applied the MA to the MDiv) , ThM in Biblical Studies including an academic thesis. (all done in residence at four schools) On top of that I had mulled over the issue of my dissertational research and had done some term papers on related issues.

When I stopped teaching full time and went to half, I decided to attempt a doc. At first I enrolled in that school "accredited" by Liverpool and took several PhD courses. When it sunk in to my head that this school was fibbing a bit about its accreditational status I dropped out. Then I enrolled in another doc program in a TRACS school, but it lost accreditation.

All along I wished that I could do a DTS or TEDS doc, but simply could neither afford to uproot myself or the tuition either.

Some friends pointed out the UK and SA system of doing docs by research, so I ended up doing that by distance and at a very low cost.

My route was not quicker. It took me over eleven years ( three on the dissertation-fulltime study) , and one can do a BA through a DTS PhD in that time.

I appreciated the opportunity to for three years of fulltime work (by then I had retired) , focus my life on a study of God the Son and His relationship in the Trinity. I came away with that experience , IMO, [ and in the opinion of readers of my dissertation from the universities of Zululand, Natal, Stellenbosch, and an informal reader with his PhD from Dallas Theological Seminary] knowing my subject extremely well.

I would do it again that same way, and how much better can backward vision be for an old guy like me?

Bill

 

You are definitely more knowledgeable of SA educational requirements than I but I understand that they have certain levels of certification before you can matriculate at the next level. I believe these levels are test-based. I like the concept. Would you care to elaborate.

I like the idea of men being required to show proficiency in Greek and Hebrew before enrolling in a D.Min. program. There are other components, of course, but there ought to be benchmarks along the way. IMHO, the end product is more important than the process. American education has been enamoured with process over product since Dewey. This is the reason that we have a bunch of dunces running around with capital letters. Sometimes process works and sometimes it doesn't. I like your ideas but it's hard to sell the public--they want the instant mix stuff.

 

An atheist and evolutionist, Dr. Fuhrman, discovered what the Bible teaches, that fasting and eating for health is possible. A fast may have "unblocked" your arteries without having to submit to the touch of the doctor's hand.

Wishing you a quick recovery.

 

I believe these levels are test-based. I like the concept. Would you care to elaborate.

===

Just a bit as I know I'm in over my head.

I'm wondering if there could not be commonly accepted goals for curricula in higher Theological education, and if the virtue of a school to educate could not be best verified by the extent to which students in and graduates of the school attain those goals.

Instead of just anticipating what the capability of a school to teach might be given the facilities of the school, why not go more directly to the point of measuring instead actual student learning and hold that criterion to be the principal test for accreditation?

JUST for an example:

1. Bill's Bible School's Objectives for Systematic Theology 1

1:1 In a subjective, closed- book midterm exam 80% of the students completing Systematic Theology 1 will from memory evidence their ability to list with 80% accuracy the distinctives of these systems of belief: Augustinianism, Pelagianism, Arminianism, Calvinism, Dispensationalism, Wesleyanism, Covenant Theology, Liberation Theology , Neo Orthodoxy, Feminist Theology, Existential Theology, Liberalism, Fundamentalism, and Evangelicalism.

1:2 and so forth

Perhaps both the subjective exams and records of attainment could be kept which accreditational teams could peruse which evidence or not the school's achievement in educating students to reach such goals.

In Oregon public schools , such is called "benchmarks" and records are kept of every student's progress in these. And further, outsiders monitor the school's achievement in seeing that its students for the most part reach gradelevel benchmarks.