Act 2:38

[TC]

In the thread on closed communion, this was said of Acts 2:38:

As the ordinances of those of law, and works were nailed to the Cross, I don't see how we can bring over "repent and be baptized for the remission of our sins" into our mist. This is what the Catholic church and others have done. Of course we Baptist say "water baptism" has nothing to do with the way we are justified of God.

I just cannot fathom why some Baptist churches and members say they believe in the "great commission" for "repent and be baptized for the remission of sins" is for those "justified by faith", as shown in Acts 2:38. Again this is what the Catholic church believes. Yet many Baptists say, and preach the "great commission". Confusing to say the least in my understanding of His Word. We cannot stand or build on the foundation of Peter, and also on the foundation of Paul, both built on the foundation of Jesus the Christ.

As I was studying this passage, the word translated for in acts 2:38 is translated something like because of in other places in the NT. So could this verse be translated repent and be baptized because of the remission of your sins? When I began to see that, I also began to see a great unity in the entire NT that I had not seen before. I had been taught what you had said, but it just did not make sense to me.

 

[J. Jump]

TC Acts 2:38 has caused a lot of confusion for a great number of folks over the years. What really helps in understanding Acts 2:38 in context is knowing and understanding that the context is not the common salvation that we today think of. The message being preached was not a message of eternal salvation by grace through faith.

Because folks have tried to make the first few chapters of Acts fit into what we today have have called the gospel then confusion can reign supreme.

This was a call for national repentance becuase the offer of the kingdom was still being given to the nation of Israel. Had Israel repented as a nation then the kingdom would have been ushered in.

I know that is very brief, but hope it helps. If you would like more detailed information just PM me.

 

[Blammo]

TC Acts 2:38 has caused a lot of confusion for a great number of folks over the years. What really helps in understanding Acts 2:38 in context is knowing and understanding that the context is not the common salvation that we today think of. The message being preached was not a message of eternal salvation by grace through faith.

Because folks have tried to make the first few chapters of Acts fit into what we today have have called the gospel then confusion can reign supreme.

This was a call for national repentance becuase the offer of the kingdom was still being given to the nation of Israel. Had Israel repented as a nation then the kingdom would have been ushered in.

I know that is very brief, but hope it helps. If you would like more detailed information just PM me.

Way to be a workman, rightly dividing the word of truth. :thumbs:

 

[whatever]

TC Acts 2:38 has caused a lot of confusion for a great number of folks over the years. What really helps in understanding Acts 2:38 in context is knowing and understanding that the context is not the common salvation that we today think of. The message being preached was not a message of eternal salvation by grace through faith.

Because folks have tried to make the first few chapters of Acts fit into what we today have have called the gospel then confusion can reign supreme.

This was a call for national repentance becuase the offer of the kingdom was still being given to the nation of Israel. Had Israel repented as a nation then the kingdom would have been ushered in.

I know that is very brief, but hope it helps. If you would like more detailed information just PM me.

Oh, come on, post more details. I'd like to know where you're getting this from, as well as what happened to the over 3,000 souls that received Peter's word and were baptized. Where are they now?

 

[TC]

I would also like to know where this comes from. Salvation has always been by grace through faith. No one was ever good enough to earn salvation - it has to be given to us by God.

It seems to me that some modern dispensational teaching does great violence to the unity of the scriptures.

 

[ituttut]

Oh, come on, post more details. I'd like to know where you're getting this from, as well as what happened to the over 3,000 souls that received Peter's word and were baptized. Where are they now?

They are in the "kingdom of Christ" that He gave to His earthly Apostle's. We can find this in Matthew 16:19, "And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

But before we all start OUR interpretation of this verse, let's see what His Word tells us.
Luke 22:28-29, "Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations.
29. And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me". This is not just to Peter but also to His Apostles. The Bible will answer itself.

 

[ituttut]

I would also like to know where this comes from. Salvation has always been by grace through faith. No one was ever good enough to earn salvation - it has to be given to us by God.

It seems to me that some modern dispensational teaching does great violence to the unity of the scriptures.

This is not theology of man, "modern dispensational teaching", but the gospel of Paul, given to him by Christ Jesus from heaven. "For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, 2. If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward", with so much information for us that follows in Ephesians 3:1-2.

When we look closely at what you say and just about all of the denomination's, we find it is in error, i.e. "Salvation has always been by grace through faith." That is an impossibility. Hebrew 11 tells us this, and can be proven. Did Abel, Noah, Abraham, David or the others know by whose name they were to come through?Had Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God shed His blood?

We need to stay with Paul. We cannot go back and be "Israel". That is not our "kingdom that was then at hand". We are in the Body of Christ. We did not know this until after Damascus Road. We Gentile's (me) were not welcome and could not enter into the Temple. We should be "busting our buttons", for look what Christ has done for us? We are now in the Holy of Holies.

By faith the circumcised are saved into their "kingdom", and through faith we are in Christ Jesus, secure, OSAS and with Him forever. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and we will be saved.

 

[LeBuick]

This is not theology of man, "modern dispensational teaching", but the gospel of Paul, given to him by Christ Jesus from heaven. "For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, 2. If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward", with so much information for us that follows in Ephesians 3:1-2.

When we look closely at what you say and just about all of the denomination's, we find it is in error, i.e. "Salvation has always been by grace through faith." That is an impossibility. Hebrew 11 tells us this, and can be proven. Did Abel, Noah, Abraham, David or the others know by whose name they were to come through?Had Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God shed His blood?

We need to stay with Paul. We cannot go back and be "Israel". That is not our "kingdom that was then at hand". We are in the Body of Christ. We did not know this until after Damascus Road. We Gentile's (me) were not welcome and could not enter into the Temple. We should be "busting our buttons", for look what Christ has done for us? We are now in the Holy of Holies.

By faith the circumcised are saved into their "kingdom", and through faith we are in Christ Jesus, secure, OSAS and with Him forever. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and we will be saved.

You are giving a lot of weight to Paul. The great comission expanded the gospel beyond Israel an those you mention, their faith was counted for righteousness.

 

[J. Jump]

I would also like to know where this comes from.

Ituttut and I don't see eye to eye on everything, but I'll agree with his answer in that it comes from Scripture

Salvation has always been by grace through faith. No one was ever good enough to earn salvation - it has to be given to us by God.

EXACTLY! I agree whole heartedly when you are talking about eternal salvation. That is by faith alone in the works of Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God, Son of God, God Himself, done on my behalf a sinner.

Any other way than that is not the way!

However salvation by grace through faith is not the context in Acts 2, 3, 4, 5, etc. The offer of the kingdom is the subject and context.

I would encourage you to go back and re-read Acts 2 and notice what is being preached.

Today when someone preaches eternal salvation they preach the good news that Jesus died on their behalf. But that is not what Peter was preaching. Peter was preaching that those folks that were hearing him were the ones that killed their King. The context is Jesus as the Christ or Jesus as the King, not Jesus as the Sacrificial Lamb.

The were pricked to the heart and repentant of their action, which was killing the King that had been sent to deliver them. They wanted to know what to do in order to get their King to come back. And in order for that to happen the entire nation of Israel would have had to repent and be obedient.

That's not the message of salvation by grace, but rather the message of the kingdom.

Another way we can tell that this isn't eternal salvation is that as someone mentioned earlier it was 3,000 "souls" that were added that day. When someone is eternally saved it is their "spirit" that is made alive. So if Acts 2 would have been eternal salvation then it would have been 3,000 spirits added to them that day.

It seems to me that some modern dispensational teaching does great violence to the unity of the scriptures.

 

[LeBuick]

Ituttut and I don't see eye to eye on everything, but I'll agree with his answer in that it comes from Scripture



EXACTLY! I agree whole heartedly when you are talking about eternal salvation. That is by faith alone in the works of Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God, Son of God, God Himself, done on my behalf a sinner.

Any other way than that is not the way!

However salvation by grace through faith is not the context in Acts 2, 3, 4, 5, etc. The offer of the kingdom is the subject and context.

I would encourage you to go back and re-read Acts 2 and notice what is being preached.

Today when someone preaches eternal salvation they preach the good news that Jesus died on their behalf. But that is not what Peter was preaching. Peter was preaching that those folks that were hearing him were the ones that killed their King. The context is Jesus as the Christ or Jesus as the King, not Jesus as the Sacrificial Lamb.

The were pricked to the heart and repentant of their action, which was killing the King that had been sent to deliver them. They wanted to know what to do in order to get their King to come back. And in order for that to happen the entire nation of Israel would have had to repent and be obedient.

That's not the message of salvation by grace, but rather the message of the kingdom.

Another way we can tell that this isn't eternal salvation is that as someone mentioned earlier it was 3,000 "souls" that were added that day. When someone is eternally saved it is their "spirit" that is made alive. So if Acts 2 would have been eternal salvation then it would have been 3,000 spirits added to them that day.

It seems to me that some modern dispensational teaching does great violence to the unity of the scriptures.

For your statement to be correc, Peter would have only preached to Jews...

Acts 2:5-10 5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,

 

[whatever]

Today when someone preaches eternal salvation they preach the good news that Jesus died on their behalf. But that is not what Peter was preaching. Peter was preaching that those folks that were hearing him were the ones that killed their King. The context is Jesus as the Christ or Jesus as the King, not Jesus as the Sacrificial Lamb.

The were pricked to the heart and repentant of their action, which was killing the King that had been sent to deliver them. They wanted to know what to do in order to get their King to come back. And in order for that to happen the entire nation of Israel would have had to repent and be obedient.

That's not the message of salvation by grace, but rather the message of the kingdom.

This is one of the most bizarre ideas I have ever come across.

Another way we can tell that this isn't eternal salvation is that as someone mentioned earlier it was 3,000 "souls" that were added that day. When someone is eternally saved it is their "spirit" that is made alive. So if Acts 2 would have been eternal salvation then it would have been 3,000 spirits added to them that day.

This may be the single most bizarre idea I have ever come across. I don't even know how to respond.

It seems to me that some modern dispensational teaching does great violence to the unity of the scriptures.

I can agree with this.

 

[Andy T.]

Whatever, ditto. It is a strange system. And yes, it is a "system" no matter how much they deny that it is.

 

[whatever]

Today when someone preaches eternal salvation they preach the good news that Jesus died on their behalf. But that is not what Peter was preaching.

Maybe we are preaching the wrong things.

 

[Hope of Glory]

Maybe we are preaching the wrong things.

Well, John the Baptizer and Jesus, we are told in the Scriptures, came preaching the Kingdom, not everlasting salvation. The message of spiritual salvation was old hat to the Jews, and to many Gentiles. But, the gospel of the Kingdom was something that most had missed the mark on, way back then, and it's still the same today.

 

[J. Jump]

For your statement to be correc, Peter would have only preached to Jews

That is correct.

This is one of the most bizarre ideas I have ever come across.

Sadly that is what most people say, because kingdom Truths have not been widely taught in churches in some years. Our day today is not terribly unlike the days when Christ was on earth.

The same thing happened when He preached the kingdom. The leaders of synagogues didn't like the message and so they kept it away from the people and if the people started buying into the message they did everything they could to sway people from believing it.

Much the same is happening today especially when you start talking about the kingdom to pastors. And it doesn't matter whether they are conservative or liberal, just as the conservatives (pharisees) and the liberals (saducees) of that day both united against the kingdom message.

This may be the single most bizarre idea I have ever come across. I don't even know how to respond.

Again your response is not that uncommon. But I would encourage you to study the matter out before rushing to conclusions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Jump
It seems to me that some modern dispensational teaching does great violence to the unity of the scriptures.

I can agree with this.

That actually wasn't originall posted by me. I think I forgot to quote it and comment on it

Actually the understanding of the kingdom brings more unity to Scripture than I have found in almost 20 years as a Christian. The Bible has never been more alive and more exciting to study since understanding the kingdom correctly. It's absolutely amazing.

Maybe we are preaching the wrong things.

Not entirely. We must preach the death and shed blood of Christ, becuase that is the only way a person can then be in a position to understand the mesasge of the kingdom. The kingdom is a spiritual message and if a person is spiritually dead they won't be able to understand it.

Their spirits must be made alive so that the Holy Spirit can communicate Truth to them. Once you are saved eternally (spiritually alive) then and only then are we in a position then to accept or reject the message that was offered to Israel.

Most of Christendom thinks that Israel rejected eternal salvation, but that is not what they rejected. They rejected the kingdom of heaven (literally the kingdom of the heavens in Matthew and John 3 according to the Aleph text and kingdom of God in other gospel accounts).

They rejected the kingdom and the King of thte kingdom.

Again I know this sounds weird and bizarre and that's EXACTLY what I thought when I first started studying through some of the material, but like I said earlier the Bible has never been more clear and understandable since being led to these Truths.

If you are truly serious about wanting to study deeper through Scripture then PM me.

EDIT: I forgot to finish commenting on your last statement It's not that we are preaching the wrong thing. It's just that most of Christendom isn't preaching the whole counsel of God's Word. Jesus' death and shed blood is where it MUST start, but it's not where it is to end. There is good news to the spiritually alive person (saved) and that is that one day he/she can rule and reign with the coming King in His kingdom. But there are stipulations. Not every saved person is guaranteed a postion of rulership in the kingdom.

 

[lbaker]

This idea sounds like Jesus failed in His mission and Paul was recruited as some kind of attempt to salvage something from the mess that Jesus allegedly made of things.

No thanks,

Les

 

[J. Jump]

This idea sounds like Jesus failed in His mission and Paul was recruited as some kind of attempt to salvage something from the mess that Jesus allegedly made of things.

Not at all. Jesus accomplished EXACTLY what He intended to accomplish or He wouldn't be God! Jesus offered Israel a legitmate offer of the kingdom of the heavens and they rejected it. But it didn't catch Him by surprise. He knew they were going to reject it. He knew they were going to kill Him and He knew by doing so that the Gentiles were going to be able to be put in a position as a part of the one new man in Christ to accept or reject the same offer given to Israel.

It doesn't diminish His time on earth at all. It actuallly makes it the more amazing! Only an all-knowing God could come to earth and offer something to a nation knowing they wouldn't accpet it and at the same time know that they were going to hate the message and the Messenger so much they would kill Him and in so doing trying to kill the message.

It just confirms the AWESOME God that we are to be serving!!!

 

[ituttut]

Ituttut and I don't see eye to eye on everything, but I'll agree with his answer in that it comes from Scripture



EXACTLY! I agree whole heartedly when you are talking about eternal salvation. That is by faith alone in the works of Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God, Son of God, God Himself, done on my behalf a sinner.

Any other way than that is not the way!

However salvation by grace through faith is not the context in Acts 2, 3, 4, 5, etc. The offer of the kingdom is the subject and context.

I would encourage you to go back and re-read Acts 2 and notice what is being preached.

Today when someone preaches eternal salvation they preach the good news that Jesus died on their behalf. But that is not what Peter was preaching. Peter was preaching that those folks that were hearing him were the ones that killed their King. The context is Jesus as the Christ or Jesus as the King, not Jesus as the Sacrificial Lamb.

The were pricked to the heart and repentant of their action, which was killing the King that had been sent to deliver them. They wanted to know what to do in order to get their King to come back. And in order for that to happen the entire nation of Israel would have had to repent and be obedient.

That's not the message of salvation by grace, but rather the message of the kingdom.

Another way we can tell that this isn't eternal salvation is that as someone mentioned earlier it was 3,000 "souls" that were added that day. When someone is eternally saved it is their "spirit" that is made alive. So if Acts 2 would have been eternal salvation then it would have been 3,000 spirits added to them that day.

It seems to me that some modern dispensational teaching does great violence to the unity of the scriptures.

Great post showing much knowledge of the gospel according to Christs's revelations to Paul.

 

[ituttut]

You are giving a lot of weight to Paul. The great comission expanded the gospel beyond Israel an those you mention, their faith was counted for righteousness.

I give the "weight" (the glory) to Christ Jesus in heaven.

The "great commission" is that of John the Baptist, Mark 16, and Acts 2:38. Can you find after Damascus Road this "other gospel" for the "kingdom is at hand" preached? The Old has been displaced by the New. We are of the "Body Church, not the "Kingdom Church". Romans 7:6, "But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter", along with Galatians 1:11-12, I Corinthians 5:7, and II Corinthians 15:16-21.

We don't what is new until after Damascus Road, one of which is the ordinances of the Law had been nailed to the Cross. Until we read Paul we know nothing of the Body of Christ, our justification through faith, the rapture, and other things that were hidden.

People don't realize where there Christian understanding comes from. It comes from Christ Jesus in heaven, as given to Paul that became Paul's gospel, just as God's Law became the Law of Moses. God works through man.

With the stoning of Stephen, God cut-off Israel, placing them again in with we Gentiles. We are not Israel, as we today are justified through faith by the Grace of God. Today it is by the Grace of God that we are saved for we put our faith in Him. It is His faith, which brings us into His Body.