True but not by Faith Alone and it’s not a one-time event. Preaching of the gospel is not irrelevant. Matt 28:19:says to “Teach” AND “Baptize”. Jesus sent the Apostles to preach (Matt 10:7 and many others). Jesus commissioned His apostles to Baptize and they actually did in John 4:1-2.
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Acts 10 - Cornelius - Question
- Thread starter LaGrange
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True but not by Faith Alone and it’s not a one-time event. Preaching of the gospel is not irrelevant. Matt 28:19:says to “Teach” AND “Baptize”. Jesus sent the Apostles to preach (Matt 10:7 and many others). Jesus commissioned His apostles to Baptize and they actually did in John 4:1-2.
I don’t know how many times I have to say that Baptism is the “Instrument” of our initial justification. As far as Rom 10 goes, let me ask you a question: I’m sure you remember the day, the hour and the minute you were saved. Did you hear a sermon before that moment? Did you read anything out of the Bible before that moment? Did anyone try to convince you to go to church before that moment? In each of these things, did you have to make a decision to do them? Here’s why I ask all of this: Was there ANY GRACE involved with any of these things before that moment you were saved? My answer is yes. This we call Actual Grace and you are not saved by it. You are brought to the point of salvation by it. This is why you are not saved by Faith alone. Faith was there before, during and after justification but you were saved by sanctifying Grace. The normal means to receive Sanctifying Grace comes through the sacraments.
Ok. Again, I’m sorry. Many on here may be surprised when I put on my main post because I believe those experiences of salvation you have are real. It’s just that I believe they are exceptions to the rule. The main way to receive saving Grace, which is Sanctifying grace, is through the sacraments.
37818
Well-Known Member
Not according to the written word of God. John 17:17, 1 John 5:9-13.
Not taught in the Bible, but certainly the tradition of a church that has gone astray and embraced unsound doctrine.
Ephesians 2:1-9 tells you the means by which God graciously saves. You were dead and could do nothing to save yourself. God chose to free you from slavery by paying the ransom for your freedom, which you could not pay.
Not all the sacraments in the world could save you apart from Jesus obeying the Father and redeeming all whom the Father has given Him. (John 10 and John 17)
No on what? No on grace before justification?
No. I explained that.
Eph 2:5 = Col 2:12-13 = Baptism. Baptism is right in those group of verses you quoted so I agree that those verses tell how God saves. God does it all in baptism and that’s why we baptize infants.
Baptism has never saved anyone, eternally. It saved a lot of Jews from 'the wrath to come', 66 - 72 AD.
you openly deny Romans 5:1
unprofitable
Active Member
Acts 5:14 And believers were the more added to the lord, multitudes BOTH OF MEN AND WOMEN.
Acts 8:12 But when they believed Phillip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, BOTH MEN AND WOMEN.
Sorry Lagrange, no mention of infants in the above verses.
You said many were saved through the faith of others. Can this be extended to my grandchildren, or double first cousins or is it immediate family only and if so why? Where do you draw the line?
John 14:6 Jesus said, I am the way, the truth, and the life, no man cometh unto the Father but by me. This verse negates any form of proxy salvation. It does not say no man and his wife or no man and his child. Individual accountability cannot be eliminated.
John Gill gives a very good treatise concerning 1 Cor 7:14. His interpretation from other manuscripts says it deals with espousals and the legitimacy of those offspring. I would encourage you to read it.
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The word baptizo means "to dip" or "to immerse." It was a common word and did not have to be water. Baptism often is speaking of the Christians immersion into Christ. Paul's verse in Galatians 2:20 gets at the idea when he says he has been crucified with Christ nevertheless he lives. The Spirit immersed us into Christ, never to be removed from that plunge. Our sinful soul was made pure by the immersion into Christ by the Holy Spirit. The water baptism of the local church is a baptism into covenant with God, not a saving baptism as your church so unfortunately teaches.
*Romans 6:3-11*
Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life. For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. For one who has died has been set free from sin. Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.
*Galatians 2:20*
I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
*Galatians 3:25-29*
But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise.
Note that the context of the baptism is not water, but is instead, baptism (immersion) into Christ.
Hi 37818,
John 17:17 - Christ is praying for the increased holiness (graces) of His disciples because He was sending them on a mission to the world. Question: I think you are trying to use this verse to say this is how you are justified. I thought Protestants separated justification and sanctification? This verse is definitely “after” their initial justification. Christ is giving them extra graces for their special vocation. We are sanctified by many things. This means we grow in grace (2 Pet 3:18). Eph 5:26 says, “That he might sanctify it, cleansing it by the laver of water in the word of life:” In this verse it says you are initially sanctified by Baptism. We are then continually sanctified through the theological and moral virtues and the Gifts. Eph 4:5 says, “One Lord, one faith, one baptism.” Faith and Baptism are tied together so it’s NOT FAITH ALONE!
1 John 5:9-13 - 1 John 5:1 says, “WHOSOEVER believeth that Jesus is the Christ, is born of God. And every one that loveth him who begot, loveth him also who is born of him.” The right way to interpret this verse is to say that one who “truly believeth” is “born of God” which is baptism. So one who truly believes is one who has been baptized. “Believing” is how you take possession of Regeneration (Baptism). Then is says a baptized Christian must “keep His commandments” (1 John 5:2-3). Without the sanctifying grace of baptism you can’t do this. Also, In context, 1 John 5:6 says, “This is he that came by water and blood, Jesus Christ: not by water only but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit which testifieth that Christ is the truth.” This points directly to Baptism because by Christ’s blood man would be redeemed and by the water that flowed from His side, man’s sins would be washed away (Ezek 36:25, John 19:34). Then 1 John 5:8 says, “And there are three that give testimony on earth: the spirit and the water and the blood. And these three are one.” This is all Baptism.
My Comment: Eph 2:5 is Baptism. I’ve already covered this. The official KJV notes tie Eph 2:5 to Col 2:13 and Rom 6:4-5 which are classic verses on Baptism.
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