Acts 13:48

[kyredneck]

What complaints have I expressed against God KY?

I've already pointed the ever so common complaints against God's sovereign grace that Paul crystalized:

“Why does He yet find fault”?

“is there unrighteousness with God”?

By far and away the bulk of the baiting/trolling you do to entice others into your rabbit holes has its roots in either one of those complaints against God.

 

[Brightfame52]

BF you keep following your philosophy rather than the bible. It is not the biblical truth you seek but rather conformation of your extra biblical view.
Your continued repetition of your error will not make it correct.

Nothing you can do about it, the Gospel is hid to them that are lost, and so the believe not. 2 Cor 4:3-4

 

[Brightfame52]

I understand that you need to follow your deterministic philosophy but when you deny clear scripture so you can hold to it then you should realize that your philosophy is in error.

Act 16:30 And he brought them out and said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
Act 16:31 So they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household."

Rom 10:13 For "WHOEVER CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED."

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.

Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

You're following a deterministic view that has come out of pagan philosophy. Augustine brought it into the church and Calvin carried it forward to this present day. You are trusting in a man-made theology rather than the word of God.

How can one call upon the Name of the Lord without believing ? Rom 10:14

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

But them which are lost cant believe because the Gospel is hid from them 2 Cor 4:3-4

 

[Silverhair]

Nothing you can do about it, the Gospel is hid to them that are lost, and so the believe not. 2 Cor 4:3-4

If Calvinism {your view} is true… Why does the devil need to fight to stop people from believing?

If it is impossible for some men to believe and impossible for other men to not believe, as Calvinism teaches, why do we see Satan fighting so hard to get people off track? Obviously, Satan must not be a Calvinist, as he surely believes man has a choice to make.

 

[Silverhair]

How can one call upon the Name of the Lord without believing ? Rom 10:14

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

But them which are lost cant believe because the Gospel is hid from them 2 Cor 4:3-4

I agree with you they call on Christ because they do believe the Gospel.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes

Eph 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Rom 3:26 for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Gal 3:8 The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham

The gospel is to be preached to all so that those that believe the gospel of Christ Jesus can be saved. The gospel is not hid as you say.

Mar_16:15 And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.

Those that are lost are lost because they reject the message of the gospel but to reject it they must have heard it.

 

[Brightfame52]

If Calvinism {your view} is true… Why does the devil need to fight to stop people from believing?

If it is impossible for some men to believe and impossible for other men to not believe, as Calvinism teaches, why do we see Satan fighting so hard to get people off track? Obviously, Satan must not be a Calvinist, as he surely believes man has a choice to make.

I dont know what you talking about.. My position is that the Gospel is hid to them that are lost, and consequently they believe not. 2 Cor 4:3-4

 

[Brightfame52]

I agree with you they call on Christ because they do believe the Gospel.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes

Eph 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Rom 3:26 for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Gal 3:8 The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham

The gospel is to be preached to all so that those that believe the gospel of Christ Jesus can be saved. The gospel is not hid as you say.

Mar_16:15 And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.

Those that are lost are lost because they reject the message of the gospel but to reject it they must have heard it.

A person cant believe if they lost. You want to skip point A and go to point B

 

[Silverhair]

I dont know what you talking about.. My position is that the Gospel is hid to them that are lost, and consequently they believe not. 2 Cor 4:3-4

I know your position you have said a number of times. What I have pointed out to you is the scriptural error and the logical error of your position.
You have tried to support your position from a few verses that do not mean what you read into them. The context does not support your view.

 

[Silverhair]

A person cant believe if they lost. You want to skip point A and go to point B

What I am doing is showing you what the bible says. You just do not accept what the bible says as it does not fit with your Calvinist theology. You are having a problem with the bible not me.

 

[Brightfame52]

I know your position you have said a number of times. What I have pointed out to you is the scriptural error and the logical error of your position.
You have tried to support your position from a few verses that do not mean what you read into them. The context does not support your view.

It is what it is, the Gospel is hid to them that are lost and so they believe not 2 Cor 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them

A lost person cant believe what is hid from them, sorry

 

[Brightfame52]

What I am doing is showing you what the bible says. You just do not accept what the bible says as it does not fit with your Calvinist theology. You are having a problem with the bible not me.

What you think 2 Cor 4:3-4 is the comic books ? Its the word of God, and it informs us that people who are lost, they have the Gospel hid from them, and so believe not.

Now in order to call upon the name of the Lord as per Rom 10:9-13, you first have to believe so says Vs 14

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

Now a lost person hasnt believed because the Gospel which is preached is hid from him or her !

 

[Silverhair]

It is what it is, the Gospel is hid to them that are lost and so they believe not 2 Cor 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them

A lost person cant believe what is hid from them, sorry

BF it looks like you and Christ are at odds. You say the lost can not hear and He says they can. Now whom do you think I should listen to?

Joh 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
Joh 5:25 "Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.

John tells us the same thing as His Lord told him
Joh 20:31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.

You read your theology into the text rather than getting your theology from the text.

 

[Silverhair]

What you think 2 Cor 4:3-4 is the comic books ? Its the word of God, and it informs us that people who are lost, they have the Gospel hid from them, and so believe not.

I know your position you have said a number of times. What I have pointed out to you is the scriptural error and the logical error of your position.
You have tried to support your position from a few verses that do not mean what you read into them. The context does not support your view.

Now in order to call upon the name of the Lord as per Rom 10:9-13, you first have to believe so says Vs 14

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

Now a lost person hasnt believed because the Gospel which is preached is hid from him or her !

Note the order Paul describes here.
1) The saved are those who call on the name of the Lord.
2) They call because they believe.
3) They believe because they heard.
4) They heard because a preacher shared the Gospel.
Working backwards, Gospel → Hearing → Believing → Confession/Calling → Salvation.

What Paul says here is clear. The Gospel is preached, people hear it, believe it, call on God and are saved. Sorry if that doesn’t fit into the Reformed-Calvinist scenario.

 

[Brightfame52]

BF it looks like you and Christ are at odds. You say the lost can not hear and He says they can. Now whom do you think I should listen to?

Joh 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
Joh 5:25 "Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.

John tells us the same thing as His Lord told him
Joh 20:31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.

You read your theology into the text rather than getting your theology from the text.

Nothing has changed, the Gospel is hid to them that are lost, resulting in unbelief 2 Cor 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

 

[Brightfame52]

I know your position you have said a number of times. What I have pointed out to you is the scriptural error and the logical error of your position.
You have tried to support your position from a few verses that do not mean what you read into them. The context does not support your view.



Note the order Paul describes here.
1) The saved are those who call on the name of the Lord.
2) They call because they believe.
3) They believe because they heard.
4) They heard because a preacher shared the Gospel.
Working backwards, Gospel → Hearing → Believing → Confession/Calling → Salvation.

What Paul says here is clear. The Gospel is preached, people hear it, believe it, call on God and are saved. Sorry if that doesn’t fit into the Reformed-Calvinist scenario.

One has to hear/believe before they call upon the name of the Lord, however the Gospel of Christ is hid to them that are lost, and so they believe not 2 Cor 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

 

[Silverhair]

Nothing has changed, the Gospel is hid to them that are lost, resulting in unbelief 2 Cor 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

BF you keep saying the same thing over and over. You just refuse to let go of your man-made theology and trust the bible.

It is because of their unbelief that the true of the gospel is veiled to them.

Mat 13:15 FOR THE HEART OF THIS PEOPLE HAS BECOME DULL, WITH THEIR EARS THEY SCARCELY HEAR, AND THEY HAVE CLOSED THEIR EYES, OTHERWISE THEY WOULD SEE WITH THEIR EYES, HEAR WITH THEIR EARS, AND UNDERSTAND WITH THEIR HEART AND RETURN, AND I WOULD HEAL THEM.'

2Co 3:16 but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.

Note the order Paul describes here.
1) The saved are those who call on the name of the Lord.
2) They call because they believe.
3) They believe because they heard.
4) They heard because a preacher shared the Gospel.
Working backwards, Gospel → Hearing → Believing → Confession/Calling → Salvation.

What Paul says here is clear. The Gospel is preached, people hear it, believe it, call on God and are saved. Sorry if that doesn’t fit into the Reformed-Calvinist scenario.

 

[Silverhair]

One has to hear/believe before they call upon the name of the Lord, however the Gospel of Christ is hid to them that are lost, and so they believe not 2 Cor 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

This is a true statement "One has to hear/believe before they call upon the name of the Lord," But you then bring your man-made theology into the mix.

Those that hear the gospel and reject it are lost. It is not that they cannot trust the gospel message it is that the will not trust the gospel message and because they will not trust the message then it is veiled to them just as Paul said.
2Co 4:3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing,

 

[Brightfame52]

BF you keep saying the same thing over and over. You just refuse to let go of your man-made theology and trust the bible.

It is because of their unbelief that the true of the gospel is veiled to them.

Mat 13:15 FOR THE HEART OF THIS PEOPLE HAS BECOME DULL, WITH THEIR EARS THEY SCARCELY HEAR, AND THEY HAVE CLOSED THEIR EYES, OTHERWISE THEY WOULD SEE WITH THEIR EYES, HEAR WITH THEIR EARS, AND UNDERSTAND WITH THEIR HEART AND RETURN, AND I WOULD HEAL THEM.'

2Co 3:16 but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.

Note the order Paul describes here.
1) The saved are those who call on the name of the Lord.
2) They call because they believe.
3) They believe because they heard.
4) They heard because a preacher shared the Gospel.
Working backwards, Gospel → Hearing → Believing → Confession/Calling → Salvation.

What Paul says here is clear. The Gospel is preached, people hear it, believe it, call on God and are saved. Sorry if that doesn’t fit into the Reformed-Calvinist scenario.

Nothing has changed, the Gospel is hid to them that are lost, so they believe not. 2 Cor 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

I dont care if you hear 1000 sermons on the Gospel, if you are lost, its hid from you and you believe not.

 

[Brightfame52]

This is a true statement "One has to hear/believe before they call upon the name of the Lord," But you then bring your man-made theology into the mix.

Those that hear the gospel and reject it are lost. It is not that they cannot trust the gospel message it is that the will not trust the gospel message and because they will not trust the message then it is veiled to them just as Paul said.
2Co 4:3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing,

The Gospel is hid to them that are lost, and consequently they believe not 2 Cor 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

 

[David Kent]

You are right I do not accept your Calvinist "Sovereign Grace" which is just your code words for Calvinistic "divine determinism" which is not biblical. This idea was brought into the church by Augustine from paganism and then carried forward by Calvin and continues to be promoted by Calvinists today.

Not true. Clement of Rome taught something similar.