Acts 20:7

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

AT "best" you have a Saturday EVENING service that would correspond to the evening of "Week-day-one". That would mean that instead of a Roman system-SUNDAY service what you really have is a Roman-system SATURDAY service! And in that case we have "planned travel" for "week-day-one" rather than "planned rest and a reserved holy day of worship".

I can hardly wait to see the entire Christian church switch to Saturday evening using Acts 20:7 a it's argument!.

However what we do NOT see in Acts 20 is any reference at all to "week-day-one" being called "The Lord's Day" or a holy day of any kind.

in Christ,

Bob

GE

No Bob, that is not what I 'have' or want to have. The text - the Participle 'synehgmenohn' - wants a Holy-Communion-Service through the Infinitive of Noun-Force, 'klasai arton'. The verb of Acts 20:7, 'dealt' ('handel' Statevertaling) is determined by the adjectival time-phrase "on the evening of the First Day" --- and nowhere whatsoever will you find an indication of a 'Service' during this evening or the remainder of the night for that matter. The only IMPLIED as well as REFERRED 'Service' was the Holy Communion, indicated by the Participle and Infinitive combined. : Deduction of something not mentioned but real on and of the day before The First Day, which was the Sabbath Day.

 

[BobRyan]

This is Acts 20:7
Acts 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

If there is a way to rework this to say

"And just before the evening of the start of week-day one we held a communion service then the remainder of the service continued into week-day-one and went something like this... Paul was preaching a farewell sermon that extended long to the point of midnight when suddenly..."

-- I have never seen a valid translation do it.

But I would be very interested to find it.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

If there is a way to rework this to say

"And just before the evening of the start of week-day one we held a communion service then the remainder of the service continued into week-day-one and went something like this... Paul was preaching a farewell sermon that extended long to the point of midnight when suddenly..."

-- I have never seen a valid translation do it.

But I would be very interested to find it.

in Christ,

Bob

GE

I have given you an exact, grammatically and syntactically correct - and the only valid, most 'literal' translation possible, Bob. The Perfect Participle MUST be rendered through the English Past Plu-Perfect as well as Continuous Past to indicate both the past incurrence of the action as well as the 'present' still ongoing effected resultant action - Thus: "After the disciples HAD HAD assembled FOR THE TO EAT THE LORD'S SUPPER, Paul on the evening of the First Day of the week while they were together still, discussed matters with them."

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

The Communion was as past tense as was its beginning, Bob - it did NOT go on during the evening. What happened during the evening was the verb of the sentence: "Paul discussed matters with them" --- until midnight; then the lad fell from the window and Paul went down and returned to the remaining disciples and --- says the Greek --- 'visited with them' until morning broke. Afrikaans, 'kuier' - they for the rest of the night just 'socialed' - nothing more!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

The Participle describes circumstance and times implied and referred - past AND present; it also describes adjectivally, the condition or state of the moment and of the people : IT DOES NOT DESCRIBE AN ACTION - IT IS NOT A VERB!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

erratum post 21, "... determined by the adjectival time-phrase "on the evening of the First Day" ..." should be: "... determined by the adverbial time-phrase "on the evening of the First Day" ..."

Pardon and thanks!

 

[BobRyan]

Youngs Literal Translation

7And on the first of the week, the disciples having been gathered together to break bread, Paul was discoursing to them, about to depart on the morrow, he was also continuing the discourse till midnight,

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Youngs Literal Translation

7And on the first of the week, the disciples having been gathered together to break bread, Paul was discoursing to them, about to depart on the morrow, he was also continuing the discourse till midnight,

GE
Young's says 100% what my translation says, thanks! 'Having been ...' is not at all, 'Gathering' or 'Having gathered'! 'Having BEEN', makes all the difference!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

I wanted this thread to re-appear on the opening page, as an invitation -or challenge - for criticism of my viewpoint. I would appreciate any criticism, but won't take to heart 'feelings', 'visions', or slavish veneration of tradition.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

The silence is deafening!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Noticed the similarities between Acts 2 and 2Chronilcles 33?

I'm busy studying these,and hope you would find the same. It strengthens much of what has been said regarding Acts 20:7.

Please let me hear from you folks?
I don't need the sarcasm from a certain gentleman though, thanks. It contributes nothing to the better understanding of the Word of God.

 

[EdSutton]

Noticed the similarities between Acts 2 and 2Chronilcles 33?

I'm busy studying these,and hope you would find the same. It strengthens much of what has been said regarding Acts 20:7.

Please let me hear from you folks?
I don't need the sarcasm from a certain gentleman though, thanks. It contributes nothing to the better understanding of the Word of God.

I read the entire thread without detecting any sarcasm in the responses.

Secondly, what does II Chron. 33 have particularly to do with Acts 2 and Acts 20:7? This association with Acts 2, unlike that of Joel 2, Ps. 16 and Ps. 110:1, seems contrived, at best. It is simply entirely exegetical error to read "Sabbath" into (or out of) places where it is not found in the text, or bend the text(s) to support some "theology of the Sabbath" where it is not textually stated as such.

Ed

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Ed Sutton
"I read the entire thread without detecting any sarcasm in the responses."

GE
BobRyan knows no other wit. I made my decision to never speak to the man again, after he retorted with the reply of "all this rambling" on my defence of my view of Mk15:42 and Mt27:57, that evening had started long ago when only Joseph went to Pilate to ask for Jesus' body to buty him.

Your replies are a bit more sophisticated, but without substance no less, like your objecting to my 'interpretation' of 'lunch' in stead of 'supper' as usual.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Dear Ed Sutton,
When I have the time, I shall post another of my 'sabbth-less' sabbath's texts, to see what you say about it, DV
Have a nice day on the farm.

 

[Dr. L.T. Ketchum]

I think you all are missing an important historical fact in your discussion of this.

In modern time and chronology, we end a day and begin a new day at midnight.

The Jews at the time of Christ ended and began a new day at Sunset.

Therefore, the Sabbath Day would have begun on Friday evening at Sunset and ended on Saturday evening at Sunset.

The first day (Sunday) would have begun at Sunset on Saturday.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

My dear man, with all respect, we all understand just like you do!

I myself would just be a bit more careful with my phrasing, e.g., day ends at evening sunset and starts at evening sunset, I would have rendered, Day ending afternoon with sunset; and day beginning with sunset and evening following.

What difference did you think, would it have made to our (shared) view Crucifixion was on Thursday; and (my personal) view Jesus rose from the dead "In the Sabbath"?

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

I do remember, Dr Ketchum, I answered on your 'points', before; and I remember you could not answer back one word.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Or does 'No answers' mean nobody has an answer?