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Actual Non Cal Doctrine

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glfredrick

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Yes we all know that if a Calvinist does not agree with a non cal on the interpretation of a particular passage then it just goes to prove that the non call is only proof texting rather than honestly exegeting scripture. :rolleyes:

For some, perhaps. But to generalize this just makes you come off as snarky and having an ax to grind.

Overall, I have failed to see anywhere as much scriptural exegesis among those who hold an alternate doctrine as I have in those who hold to the Doctrines of Grace. I would LOVE to be proven wrong, but so far (and I can do another poll of threads) I belive I am on the right track on this issue.

Proper exegesis, including a proper hermeneutic "in context" rarely allows the passages that are often cited in favor of a more anthopocentric point of view to really infer what they are supposed to infer. That comes from any number of reasons, one of which is that the actual sentence in the original language may not even be the same structure or punctuation as it is in the English in order to make it readable. Pericope may cross sentence lines, passage lines, even chapter lines in the original text which gives a different emphasis to the verse at hand once understood in accordance with what was written.

An example of this is fresh at mind for me as I preach through 1 Peter. In chapter 1, the original Greek has ONE sentence that starts in 1:2 and extends to 1:12. ONE SENTENCE with ONE main subject and ONE main verb. Yet, in English, that passage is divided up into multiple sentences, each with a subject and a verb. If one read that in a "proof text" (as in, "See, the Bible says...") sort of way one could very easily miss the main point of that pericope and arrive at a false sense of what Peter wrote. Only through careful exegesis and diagram of the original text can one truly understand what was written and inspired by God rather than what one sees because of the translation (and all the translations have sentenceS).

But, the argument goes, "I have no capacity in Greek." "You are saying that I must have Greek in order to read my Bible and follow Jesus!" To that I say hogwash. Any decent commentary opened alongside an English Bible of choice will point this out from some scholar who devoted his life to learning what others either cannot or will not learn, and the more one disavows the use of these tools to assist with the understanding of the Text in its original language the more that same one actually desires to make the Word say whatever he or she wishes, for it SAYS ONE THING and it is our task, no -- commandment -- to "rightly divide the Word of Truth." In other words, to KNOW what the text says -- period. Once there, we can then "infer" some position or another depending on what is written, but ONE THING is in fact written. Therein lies the error of SO many who believe themselves to actually be students of the Word.
 

webdog

Active Member
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MB.....if you try and articulate why you think the 5pts are off.....you might be surprised that you cannot defend your position at all.
I see it well defended day in and day out. It's a matter of perspective.
 

Iconoclast

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I see it well defended day in and day out. It's a matter of perspective.

True enough webdog...but maybe you are not really considering some of the points....in a fresh way....

Allan used to give some more balance to the other side...he has been busy lately....Hello Allan...hope all is well with you:wavey:
 

webdog

Active Member
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True enough webdog...but maybe you are not really considering some of the points....in a fresh way....

Allan used to give some more balance to the other side...he has been busy lately....Hello Allan...hope all is well with you:wavey:
Considering the points in a fresh way is what lead me away from that doctrine :)
 

mandym

New Member
And by the way one of the best friends, I have in ministry, is a pastor of a local church who is a Calvinist. We talk and pray and discuss theological issues frequently. He does not set himself as being superior in exegesis or walk in ministry as do some of the Calvinists on this board and other places. And he admits it is a problem within the Calvinist community. Neither does he believe that rewording the position of others is appropriate or even adult behavior.
 

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
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Considering the points in a fresh way is what lead me away from that doctrine :)
:laugh::laugh:Wd you are giving me stress!

Be careful my friend.....Joseph Smith turned from the Historic faith , put his bible down, walked out in the woods, and found the demonic spirit moroni, and we have the book of Morman....

Good to know you have not put your bible down.... WD:laugh:

If you feel like doing that ...Contact pastor Fred Pugh...over by you...he will intercede and answer your concerns.
 

MB

Well-Known Member
Of course, but if something can be SUPPORTED by Scripture then one is likely not arguing it incorrectly.

On the other hand, some make their points then find Scriptures to proof text their own arguments, and that is likely what you are trying to say in your post above.

I find that those holding the doctrines of grace use Scripture rather well, and are not running from verses as is SO often supposed. They do, however, tend to EXEGETE Scripture in context rather than "proof-text" (and I'm assuming that everyone knows what that term means by now).
Absolute nonsense; There is no support for any of the tulip. If there were you would have used it. Since you haven't and most likely won't even try you rather just post your complaints Of those who in error you call Arminians.
MB
 

MB

Well-Known Member
Yes we all know that if a Calvinist does not agree with a non cal on the interpretation of a particular passage then it just goes to prove that the non call is only proof texting rather than honestly exegeting scripture. :rolleyes:
The jealousy of proof texting. LOL it's really a joke! you're admiting you've been proven wrong yet you'd still rather believe the lie's of Calvinism.
MB
 

DaChaser1

New Member
Absolute nonsense; There is no support for any of the tulip. If there were you would have used it. Since you haven't and most likely won't even try you rather just post your complaints Of those who in error you call Arminians.
MB

The bible does INDEED have the doctrines of Grace through it, but one has to be able to see the full extent of the fall upon us in order to appreciate what the DoG explain regarding the biblical theology on salvation in Christ!

if one stays focused on trying to prove "goodness of man/free will" cannot see the forst for the trees!
 

MB

Well-Known Member
Of course, but if something can be SUPPORTED by Scripture then one is likely not arguing it incorrectly.

On the other hand, some make their points then find Scriptures to proof text their own arguments, and that is likely what you are trying to say in your post above.

I find that those holding the doctrines of grace use Scripture rather well, and are not running from verses as is SO often supposed. They do, however, tend to EXEGETE Scripture in context rather than "proof-text" (and I'm assuming that everyone knows what that term means by now).
Personally I do not do exegesis, that is the works of Calvinist. I read the text and post the text and show the doctrine of Jesus Christ. Exegesis is the interpretation and the and the defining of words. Such as in the words "Whole World" Your interpretation of these words is false if you claim it doesn't mean every single soul in the world. As does Preacher4truth.
MB
 

MB

Well-Known Member
The bible does INDEED have the doctrines of Grace through it, but one has to be able to see the full extent of the fall upon us in order to appreciate what the DoG explain regarding the biblical theology on salvation in Christ!

if one stays focused on trying to prove "goodness of man/free will" cannot see the forst for the trees!
No where is it ever said in scripture that man is unable to respond to the gospel. It says man is a sinner I admit that but it never says man is totally depraved.. The Bible does not have the doctrines of grace as described by Calvinist. If it did you would show them no one ever has all they do is show text taken out of context and twisted to make it seem so. Calvinism is just as is it's mother church the RCC.

The fact man has a choice is recorded through out scripture and it is Calvinist who place the blind folds on when shown them. Most won't even read the passages and those who do deny it's truth by redefining particular words so they can say to them selves it doesn't say what it clearly states.
MB
 
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preacher4truth

Active Member
Yes, we know you don't care for proper interpretation via exposition and exegesis. Doing so exposes your many errors, and is a task reserved for those who are mature in the faith, men and women of the meat of the Word.

It's also following the example of Christ, Luke 24:27; and according to the instructions of Paul in rightly handling the Scriptures, as was his instruction to pastor Timothy, 2 Timothy 2:15; and was what Philip the evangelist did in explaining the passage to the Ehtiopian eunuch; Acts 8:27ff, and was also the practice in Nehemiah 8:8. This is, by your own words and to your own discredit something you do not practice, and is one example and reason as to why you arrive at your many spurious errors of interpretation.
 
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webdog

Active Member
Site Supporter
No where is it ever said in scripture that man is unable to respond to the gospel. It says man is a sinner I admit that but it never says man is totally depraved.. The Bible does not have the doctrines of grace as described by Calvinist. If it did you would show them no one ever has all they do is show text taken out of context and twisted to make it seem so. Calvinism is a cult just as is it's mother church the RCC.

The fact man has a choice is recorded through out scripture and it is Calvinist who place the blind folds on when shown them. Most won't even read the passages and those who do deny it's truth by redefining particular words so they can say to them selves it doesn't say what it clearly states.
MB

MB you are making us look bad. Exegesis is gleaning the proper meaning from a passage, it is not some calvinistic twisting of Scripture (they use eisegesis for that :)), which is what you claim to do by explaining Scripture...and calvinism is not a "cult". You are way out of line.
 

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
MB you are making us look bad. Exegesis is gleaning the proper meaning from a passage, it is not some calvinistic twisting of Scripture (they use eisegesis for that :)), which is what you claim to do by explaining Scripture...and calvinism is not a "cult". You are way out of line.

Thank you for this useful post...:thumbsup::thumbs: two out of three WD...two thumbs up:laugh:

MB.....step back from the keyboard...take a couple of deep breaths....have a decaf coffee....read psalm 37...you will feel better.
 

quantumfaith

Active Member
MB you are making us look bad. Exegesis is gleaning the proper meaning from a passage, it is not some calvinistic twisting of Scripture (they use eisegesis for that :)), which is what you claim to do by explaining Scripture...and calvinism is not a "cult". You are way out of line.

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
 

jbh28

Active Member
Personally I do not do exegesis, that is the works of Calvinist. I read the text and post the text and show the doctrine of Jesus Christ. Exegesis is the interpretation and the and the defining of words. Such as in the words "Whole World" Your interpretation of these words is false if you claim it doesn't mean every single soul in the world. As does Preacher4truth.
MB

I think you misunderstand what "exegesis" is. When you read a text, you either do exegesis(getting your interpretation FROM the text) or eisegesis(putting your definition INTO the text).


But thanks for saying that only Calvinist do exegesis! :)
 
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