Acupuncture

[Peggy]

I am getting weekly acupuncture treatments to deal with some physical problems that I am having in my hands and feet.

I will be getting treatments once a week for 10 weeks, then we will see if the neuropathy has been helped.

I know that some Christians may have a problem with this. I don't, it is a medical procedure done using medical science that has helped many people with physical problems.

What do you think?

 

[TomMann]

Go for it. Lots of people have been helped.

 

[Aaron]

Why would any Christian have a problem with it?

 

[Rex77]

Our Pastor is also a Medical Doctor an gives me Acupuncture during the week in the Church. while I listen to hymns on the PA system and discuss last weeks sermon.

you can't get that kind service at your local G P.

 

[Marcia]

Why would any Christian have a problem with it?

Yes. It's not based on science or medicine or the biology of the body. It's based on the Taoist believe in "chi," an invisible force that is external and internal. This chi (also you will see at as ki) supposedly flows through invisible channels in the body called "merdians." The Taoists believed that when your chi was blocked, you became ill. Also, the balance of yin and yang was disrupted. These beliefs originated in early Chinese shamanism.

Iow, it's a spiritual basis.

The only studies that have been done by objective parties have found help in only 3 or 4 areas, such as nausea, pain after dental surgery, and some knee pain. In other areas, the claims of acupuncture are no better than placebo or sham acupuncture.

Just investigate and you will see. Of course, you will find acupuncture sites claiming all kinds of cures and studies that bolster their view. But these studied were usually done by those in the acupuncture industry, were not published in medical journals, and were not done in a scientific manner (having a control group, etc).

Acupuncture is used to regulate or correct the flow of qi to restore health.
To really understand how acupuncture works, it is necessary to become familiar with the basics of Chinese philosophy. The philosophies of the Dao or Tao, yin and yang, the eight principles, the three treasures and the five elements are all fundamental to traditional Chinese acupuncture and its specific role in helping to maintain good health and a person's well-being

.http://www.holisticonline.com/Acupuncture/acp_what_is.htm


I repeat - it has no medical basis. If there is something medical or physiological going on, then it has yet to be discovered. And if that is the case, it is no longer acupuncture, since acupuncture is based on the flow of chi and balance of yin and yang.

 

[Aaron]

You just yangin' my chain?

 

[donnA]

Yes. It's not based on science or medicine or the biology of the body. It's based on the Taoist believe in "chi," an invisible force that is external and internal. This chi (also you will see at as ki) supposedly flows through invisible channels in the body called "merdians." The Taoists believed that when your chi was blocked, you became ill. Also, the balance of yin and yang was disrupted. These beliefs originated in early Chinese shamanism.

Iow, it's a spiritual basis.

The only studies that have been done by objective parties have found help in only 3 or 4 areas, such as nausea, pain after dental surgery, and some knee pain. In other areas, the claims of acupuncture are no better than placebo or sham acupuncture.

Just investigate and you will see. Of course, you will find acupuncture sites claiming all kinds of cures and studies that bolster their view. But these studied were usually done by those in the acupuncture industry, were not published in medical journals, and were not done in a scientific manner (having a control group, etc).

.http://www.holisticonline.com/Acupuncture/acp_what_is.htm


I repeat - it has no medical basis. If there is something medical or physiological going on, then it has yet to be discovered. And if that is the case, it is no longer acupuncture, since acupuncture is based on the flow of chi and balance of yin and yang.

I can't see how or why any christian would approve of this,
chi, yin and tang, part of a false religion, and no medical bases, nope, can't see how a christian can support this.
But, christians now a days take part in all kinds of ungoldy activities, and support ungodly activities of others.

 

[Peggy]

I am enrolled in a study which is trying to determine scientifically if acupuncture helps with neuropathy. We don't talk about yin and yang or chi Each week I report my symptoms, and at the end of the period we will see if it had an effect. I think I'm a good person to try the acupuncture on, because I am not convinced either way if it will work.

What if there is an objective medical benefit that the Chinese have found, but with no other way to explain it, they couched it in religious terms?

I don't believe it is an ungodly activity. It is a little painful when they put the needles in, though.

 

[Scarlett O.]

Peggy,

All I can tell you is my own story. The LORD healed my mentally handicapped brother through acupunture.

He is 46 years old and in August of 2007, he had a hernia surgery during which he had an allergic reaction to the anesthesia and developed post-surgery vomiting, hiccups, and bleeding. He also went into kidney failure.

He almost died.

In 8 days, eight different doctors, very capable and credible, saw him and tried to keep him from dying. The surgery doctor, the chief hospital doctor, 3 kidney specialists, 2 gastroinstestinal specialists, and a neurologist.

My father was at the point of making funeral arrangements. My mother was a basket case. He couldn't stop vomiting up bile nor hiccuping. He could not eat nor barely sleep. He had to be fed through a tube like a cancer patient.

Finally, his surgery doctor came in after 8 days and said that he was sending him downstairs to the acupuncturist. My father, being the conservative Christian that he is, jumped up and said, "NO!".

My mentally handicapped brother, from his bed said, "What would it hurt?"

So we went - my father and I - as they wheeled his bed downstairs.

A white man in green scrubs came in and introduced himself as the acupuncturist. He told my brother that he was going to send him on a little nap and when he woke up that he would feel better.

It was almost laughable - except it wasn't funny.

He placed five needles total - on his forehead, feet, and chest. After that he turned to walk away - and my brother fell immediately asleep.

When he came back in 20-25 minutes, he removed the needles and my brother woke up. The first thing that he said was, "Do you think I could get something to eat - maybe some mashed potatoes?"

And he didn't hiccup again nor vomit.

He went home two days later and after two years his creatine level has returned to normal.

I asked the doctor why he prescribed this treatment. He said that he, himself, uses it for nauseau. He said that once he had to perform surgery and that he was violently sick. He knew that he couldn't take medication because it would alter his reflexes and thinking skills. The same acupuncturists told him that he could fix his nauseau and he did - with two needles on the side of his head.

He said that most doctors don't beleive in it, but he does after using it personally.

There were never any discussion of religion, chi, spirituality, nor any such thing.

There was only an insertion of needles and a healing.

I don't believe that acupuncture healed my brother. I believe that the LORD healed my brother via acupuncture when nothing else - and I literally mean nothing else would.

 

[Peggy]

That is an amazing story! I am so glad your brother recovered. One never knows about anesthesia.

There is a lot that we could learn about acupuncture. They give me 32 needles each treatment. I feel like a porcupine. One patient I know said that it really helped the arthritis in his hands - enough so he can paint again.

 

[Dr. Bob]

The body is "electrical". Every cell comunicates with other cells. The Chinese figured that out when the Greeks were still living in caves and using leeches and ingesting mercury.

I thank God for Eastern treatments and remedies. Sadly, acupuncture did not help my profound neuropathy one iota. Ever-present pain and limited mobility (although I've learned to walk so praising God!). I used a modern treatment developed by the US Navy Seals (anodyne) and it is helping greatly.

To claim herbs and acupuncture and oils et al are somehow "voodoo" or part of Taoist religion or evil only shows the paucity of understanding by people of how the body works.

Western medicine is chemistry-based, looking at blood (about the LAST thing to indicate a problem) and cutting (surgery), poisoning (chemo/big pharma drugs) or burning (radiation) its victims.

Eastern medicine, including that mentioned throughout the Bible, is physics-based, looking at energy and harmony within the balance of systems in the body (eg. respiratory, circulatory, digestive, endocrine).

It our years of experience, we've seen some genuinely fearful people who have been duped (hopefully by well-meaning friends; mostly by drug company commercials) against natural or alternative treatment. We even had a pastor who asked us to hold a seminar in his church since the deacons were about to fire him for being a closet buddhist (his wife used some 5000 year old chinese herbal formulas to help where no allopathic doctor in the city could help).

Stop by our website and look at a few of the alternative, natural CHOICES you have before you go to see your MD and put your fate in big pharma.

www.phr.net

And yes, the beautiful doctor on the screen is my wife of nearly 40 years

 

[rbell]

Just because the Chinese have a pagan theory as to why it works...that doesn't mean it doesn't work; just that their theory is wrong.

 

[Dr. Bob]

Good contrast in treatment in Luke of the two philosophies of medicine:

Western Medicine (doctors, pills, surgery, leeches, like many use today)

Luke 8:43 "Now there was a woman who had been suffering from hemorrhages for twelve years; and though she had spent all she had on physicians, no one could cure her."

Eastern Medicine (herbs, oils, alternative treatments, vitamins, minerals like I use today)

Luke 10:33 "But a Samaritan while traveling came near him; and when he saw him, he was moved with pity. He went to him and bandaged his wounds, having poured oil and wine on them. Then he put him on his own animal, brought him to an inn, and took care of him."

Just sayin' . . .

 

[windcatcher]

The body is "electrical". Every cell comunicates with other cells. The Chinese figured that out when the Greeks were still living in caves and using leeches and ingesting mercury.

I thank God for Eastern treatments and remedies. Sadly, acupuncture did not help my profound neuropathy one iota. Ever-present pain and limited mobility (although I've learned to walk so praising God!). I used a modern treatment developed by the US Navy Seals (anodyne) and it is helping greatly.

To claim herbs and acupuncture and oils et al are somehow "voodoo" or part of Taoist religion or evil only shows the paucity of understanding by people of how the body works.

Western medicine is chemistry-based, looking at blood (about the LAST thing to indicate a problem) and cutting (surgery), poisoning (chemo/big pharma drugs) or burning (radiation) its victims.

Eastern medicine, including that mentioned throughout the Bible, is physics-based, looking at energy and harmony within the balance of systems in the body (eg. respiratory, circulatory, digestive, endocrine).

It our years of experience, we've seen some genuinely fearful people who have been duped (hopefully by well-meaning friends; mostly by drug company commercials) against natural or alternative treatment. We even had a pastor who asked us to hold a seminar in his church since the deacons were about to fire him for being a closet buddhist (his wife used some 5000 year old chinese herbal formulas to help where no allopathic doctor in the city could help).

Stop by our website and look at a few of the alternative, natural CHOICES you have before you go to see your MD and put your fate in big pharma.

www.phr.net

And yes, the beautiful doctor on the screen is my wife of nearly 40 years

Good contrast in treatment in Luke of the two philosophies of medicine:

Western Medicine (doctors, pills, surgery, leeches, like many use today)

Luke 8:43 "Now there was a woman who had been suffering from hemorrhages for twelve years; and though she had spent all she had on physicians, no one could cure her."

Eastern Medicine (herbs, oils, alternative treatments, vitamins, minerals like I use today)

Luke 10:33 "But a Samaritan while traveling came near him; and when he saw him, he was moved with pity. He went to him and bandaged his wounds, having poured oil and wine on them. Then he put him on his own animal, brought him to an inn, and took care of him."

Just sayin' . . .

Excellant points and guidance given.
Our western medicine has little more basis in relationship to God and faith than the eastern medicine. Both rely on the science of study or outcomes as experienced by those who have been helped.

Actually, in viewing the broad picture of things, God put the ability to heal and repair in our bodies: all medicine is dependant on his love and will for our healing, and, when he allows others, such as doctors or accupuncturists to participate in that healing, is it possible that he gave them the wisdom to figure it out.... an act of grace and mercy on his part in spite of their superstitious beliefs or the pagan excuses to explain away what they do not understand.

The Bible clearly states God gave us the herbs of the fields and the leaves of the trees for our healing. Many people find some relief in the use of herbs and oils and roots. Yet there are some pagan cultures which practice voodoo or other types of shamanism yet find medicinal benefit in concoctions made with plants.


What I would remind myself, in placing my health or therapy in the hands of another is that at the best..... they are only a tool being used and I'm dependant on God for my healing and to guide their wisdom in the choices they make, but, whatever the outcome, be it according to his will and glory. Unfortunately, in the study of these various alternatives, the practictioners are exposed to the superstitious belief systems behind the 'art' and adopt these as an explantion and sort of carry on the teachings of these superstition as part of the treatment. Reject this. If folks would say that western medicine involves no superstition....... then how about the indoctirnation into humanism and evolution and faith in science which trashes the reception of God by doctors and medical staff who don't believe, and is at odds or overrules the truth in those who do?

As for the 'science' of accupuncture', the nervous system of the body is a signaling system of communication and feed back between organs systems including the brain. The chemistry of the blood involves more than carrying oxygen to all parts of the body. It carries O2 and CO2, bicarbonate ions, sodium, calcium, potassium...... electrolytes........ meaning that the chemistry is a careful balance between positive and negative charged ions....... Ions have to do with the positive and negative affinity for other molecular 'hook-ups' and disconnects because of the number of electrons which circle the outer orbits of the atomic elements.

What may be superstitution and religion in one culture to explain a therapeutic practiced ..... might be explained by our understanding of science and that the body is responsive to stimuli through an electrical like system of communication. A pace maker times the heart. Electrocution and lightening can kill or maim permanently. Doctors are frequently baffled by pain experienced in one part of the body, called 'referred pain' with its origins in pathology remote from the experience.

Does accupuncture work? Our western medical establishment is determined to control and protect its own interest in its science, technology, and pharmaceutical industries, that it is doubtful it would fund or objectively study any alternatives to treatment or cultural and folk options which would challenged it. Why not try it and give God the glory if it helps. The outcome belongs to him no matter what is and isn't done.

 

[Marcia]

I am enrolled in a study which is trying to determine scientifically if acupuncture helps with neuropathy. We don't talk about yin and yang or chi Each week I report my symptoms, and at the end of the period we will see if it had an effect. I think I'm a good person to try the acupuncture on, because I am not convinced either way if it will work.

What if there is an objective medical benefit that the Chinese have found, but with no other way to explain it, they couched it in religious terms?

I don't believe it is an ungodly activity. It is a little painful when they put the needles in, though.

If there were a physical basis for it, they would have found it. They still have not discovered any physical way that acupuncture works beyond the fact that the needles release endorphins and the placebo effect. In the small number of cases that it does seem to have effect, there is no physical explanation. They've looked into the possibility of nerve signals, etc. but have not found anything conclusive.

 

[Johnv]

I know that some Christians may have a problem with this. I don't, it is a medical procedure done using medical science that has helped many people with physical problems.

What do you think?

Does it help? Then have at it. Marcia will have a problem with it and cite its origins, but the discerning Christian knows it's a physical treatment, and you're not engaging in anything occultic or idolatrous in doing so.

Marcia is correct, though, that we don't know why it works. But it works. There's nothing supernatural about its application, though.

 

[Marcia]

Some helpful Christian sources on acupuncture that give reasonable evaluations and responses, including possibly physical causes/effects.

http://www.watchman.org/profile/acupro.htm

http://www.wfial.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=artNewAge.article_10

http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/14661.htm

 

[kfinks]

Not exactly acupuncture, but I have both seen and felt the results of strikes against specific points on the meridians. The effects are very real.

 

[HAMel]

As a young person I had always heard that Chiropractic Treatments amounted to not much more than quackery. That is until I severely hurt my back in 1980.

The first two doctors I spoke with both suggested surgery. With reservations I tried a Chiropractor and immediately felt relief. Two more trips and the problem was fixed. Ask me if I was impressed.

About a year ago my left knee went out and a doctor told me I need a knee replacement. A friend suggested acupuncture and was again impressed that surgery was not necessary.

There are other alternatives out there for most ailments.

 

[saturneptune]

I am getting weekly acupuncture treatments to deal with some physical problems that I am having in my hands and feet.

I will be getting treatments once a week for 10 weeks, then we will see if the neuropathy has been helped.

I know that some Christians may have a problem with this. I don't, it is a medical procedure done using medical science that has helped many people with physical problems.

What do you think?

Oh no, you do not want to get mixed up in that. Look up Hez 3:14 (KJOV). Thou shall not doeth acupuncture. Those foundeth with needles ineth their skin, shall surely be throwneth into the Lake of Fire, verily, verily.

Seriously, go for it. I know several people it has helped, and my advice to you is to ignore all the superstitious mumbo jumbo in this thread and do what is best for you.