AD 66 – Definitive Date of Preterism

[Piper]

I believe it could be argued that His 'presence' began at Pentecost - of 'that generation'. But that doesn't imply a major disagreement with my fellow Preterists.

Ok, will give you that. Maybe I overstated it. But, are there disagreements on issues regarding preterism among preterists? There are among Premillenials.

 

[kyredneck]

are there disagreements on issues regarding preterism among preterists?

Oh yes, especially when it comes to the book of Revelation.

 

[asterisktom]

Oh yes, especially when it comes to the book of Revelation.

Yes, and also the timing and nature of the rapture. Don Preston and I have had a rather intense exchange on that in a few preterist groups.

 

[asterisktom]

But, are there disagreements on issues regarding preterism among preterists?

The biggest differences among us full preterists is in Christology. The main preterist "authority", Don Preteston, does not believe we are saved by the blood of Christ, but by His separation from the Father. He believes that Christ died twice, first spiritually (separation) then physically. This is all heretical, of course. I hate that when people investigate preterism they come across him and think he speaks for all of us.

The other major difference is in the rapture. He believes in a corporate change in the church at AD 70, not at all experential. Others, like myself, believe in an actual experential rapture of those first century saints.

 

[Lodic]

The biggest differences among us full preterists is in Christology. The main preterist "authority", Don Preston, does not believe we are saved by the blood of Christ, but by His separation from the Father. He believes that Christ died twice, first spiritually (separation) then physically. This is all heretical, of course. I hate that when people investigate preterism they come across him and think he speaks for all of us.

The other major difference is in the rapture. He believes in a corporate change in the church at AD 70, not at all experiential. Others, like myself, believe in an actual experiential rapture of those first century saints.

I didn't know that about Preston. That's disappointing, but I still find his insights useful.

 

[asterisktom]

I didn't know that about Preston. That's disappointing, but I still find his insights useful.

Yes, it is sort of a chew-the-meat-but-spit-out-the-bones situation. Except some of those bones are poisonous. Being wrong on Christology is a lot more serious than, say, ecclesiology.

 

[Lodic]

Yes, it is sort of a chew-the-meat-but-spit-out-the-bones situation. Except some of those bones are poisonous. Being wrong on Christology is a lot more serious than, say, ecclesiology.

Probably should avoid his writings in the future, now that I know about this serious issue.

 

[asterisktom]

Probably should avoid his writings in the future, now that I know about this serious issue.

Agreed. As proof that I am not just making this up , here is one of his quotes.

This is a horrible teaching!

 

[37818]

Agreed. As proof that I am not just making this up , here is one of his quotes.
View attachment 6729
This is a horrible teaching!

Wow. Christ had two deaths. See the Hebrew plural translated singular in Isaiah 53:9, ". . . and with the rich in his death; . . ." His soul died and that death ended, and then He phyiscally died for His resurrection. Mark 15:34-38, John 19:28-30, Luke 23:46, Acts of the Apostles 2:31-37.
[ Isaiah 53:10, Isaiah 53:12 ]
And there are more related references to the death of the soul with the eternal suffering of the lost.

 

[asterisktom]

Wow. Christ had two deaths. See the Hebrew plural translated singular in Isaiah 53:9, ". . . and with the rich in his death; . . ." His soul died and that death ended, and then He phyiscally died for His resurrection. Mark 15:34-38, John 19:28-30, Luke 23:46, Acts of the Apostles 2:31-37.
[ Isaiah 53:10, Isaiah 53:12 ]
And there are more related references to the death of the soul with the eternal suffering of the lost.

But Christ did not die two deaths. If we translate woodenly other Hebraisms from the Old Testament we would also come up with more than one God.

 

[asterisktom]

Agreed. As proof that I am not just making this up , here is one of his quotes.
View attachment 6729
This is a horrible teaching!

I meant to also add this last quote from Preston:


We are saved by the blood of Christ, the earlier separation did not pay the price.

 

[37818]

But Christ did not die two deaths.

He did. His soul died and He was physically conscious.
The payment for our sins was completed, John 19:28, ". . . Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, . . ." aka paid in full. The very same Greek word and grammar, "It is finished." John 19:30. If it wasn't, there would be no resurrection, per 1 Corinthians 15:17. Ezekiel 18:4, Mark 10:45. Jesus substituted His soul for ours. Not "life" as commonly translated.

 

[37818]

We are saved by the blood of Christ, the earlier separation did not pay the price.

Leviticus 17:11, ". . . for the soul of the flesh is in the blood; . . . ." John Darby translation.

 

[asterisktom]

He did. His soul died and He was physically conscious.
The payment for our sins was completed, John 19:28, ". . . Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, . . ." aka paid in full. The very same Greek word and grammar, "It is finished." John 19:30. If it wasn't, there would be no resurrection, per 1 Corinthians 15:17. Ezekiel 18:4, Mark 10:45. Jesus substituted His soul for ours. Not "life" as commonly translated.

No, you are way off, sad to say. But I have other things to deal with.

 

[37818]

No, you are way off, sad to say. But I have other things to deal with.

Not offended.
Look at it at another time. There are more issues to it.

 

[Piper]

He did. His soul died and He was physically conscious.
The payment for our sins was completed, John 19:28, ". . . Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, . . ." aka paid in full. The very same Greek word and grammar, "It is finished." John 19:30. If it wasn't, there would be no resurrection, per 1 Corinthians 15:17. Ezekiel 18:4, Mark 10:45. Jesus substituted His soul for ours. Not "life" as commonly translated.

"He did." I.E. he died two deaths.

I personally think that this needs a separate thread. That is wild speculation, and contrary to the eternality of the third person of the Trinity, in my humble opinion.

 

[asterisktom]

Agree

"He did." I.E. he died two deaths.

I personally think that this needs a separate thread. That is wild speculation, and contrary to the eternality of the third person of the Trinity, in my humble opinion.

It is speculation, yes, and contrary to much of Scripture.

 

[robycop3]

PRETERISM IS PHONY AS A $3 BILL !

The parousia has NOT yet occurred ! If it had, Jesus would still be here, ruling the world right now. He told us just how His return would appear. He will be seen by all,(Rev. 1:7), He would appear in the sky, (Matt. 24:29-31) and He will remain here.(Rev. 19:11-21)

There's been no "beast/man of sin", no AOD, no worldwide great trib, & certainly no parousia. To say those things have already occurred is nonsense.

Asterisk Tom, with all due respect, ou cannot tell us who the beast was, who his sidekick the false prophet was, hen the AOD was committed, nor when Rev. 19L11-21 was fulfilled. You're only fooling yourself if you actually believe that pret nonsense.

 

[asterisktom]

It seems you do not think that the bible should be trusted as it is written but rather as you think it should be read. You deny scripture because some man has written an article that you feel is convincing.

Since what was spoken of in the last book of the bible does not fit your theology. I will trust what the bible says. You do seem to be sincere in your posts but from what you said in your 9/11 post I do think you tend toward the fringes.

Come again? What "man has written an article" that made me "deny Scripture"? And concerning 9/11: You seem to think that steel towers disintegrating within 10 seconds is normal yet I am the one in the fringes?

Christianity, truly understood, is on the fringes. If it is something that accepted by the many then there probably is something missing from the message.

 

[Lodic]

PRETERISM IS PHONY AS A $3 BILL !

The parousia has NOT yet occurred ! If it had, Jesus would still be here, ruling the world right now. He told us just how His return would appear. He will be seen by all,(Rev. 1:7), He would appear in the sky, (Matt. 24:29-31) and He will remain here.(Rev. 19:11-21)

There's been no "beast/man of sin", no AOD, no worldwide great trib, & certainly no parousia. To say those things have already occurred is nonsense.

Asterisk Tom, with all due respect, you cannot tell us who the beast was, who his sidekick the false prophet was, hen the AOD was committed, nor when Rev. 19L11-21 was fulfilled. You're only fooling yourself if you actually believe that pret nonsense.

If you don't mind me sticking my oar in... The only part of your post that I agree with is that the Parousia is still a future event. There was no worldwide tribulation because the "Great Tribulation" was limited to Judah.

Having said that, Jesus "came" in a "cloud" of judgment. This was seen (or "understood") by "those who pierced Him", and "all the tribes of the earth (the land of Israel)" mourned over Him (Revelation 1:7). Going down to verse 9, John says that he is a "fellow partaker in the tribulation". He was obviously referring to tribulation of his day, not some imagined future tribulation.

As I've explained many times, the Beast was Nero/the Roman Empire, and the Man of Sin was also Nero. The False Prophet (aka the Beast of the Land) was Apostate Israel. If you compare Matthew 24:15 with Luke 21:20, you should recognize that Jerusalem surrounded by the Roman armies was the AOD. Be careful to study the entire context of both passages.

To say that the tribulation, the Beast, AOD, etc. are future events is pure fantasy. With all due respect, you are only fooling yourself by believing this futurist nonsense. It's time to study these prophecies without blinders and preconceived ideas.