ad hominem argument

I goofed. Sorry

 

I only want to talk about the Institutes that separate the C/A.
I remove the remark but too late, sorry. I thought you said you had not read John Calvin?

To be #3 then you must of considered yours one also?

The offspring of believers are born holy, because their children, while yet in the womb, before they breathe the vital air, have been adopted into the covenant of eternal life. Nor are they brought into the church by baptism on any other ground than because they belonged to the body of the Church before they were born.

The children of believers are baptized not in order that they who were previously strangers to the church may then for the first time become children of God, but rather that, because by the blessing of the promise they already belonged to the body of Christ
These darts are aimed more at God than at us. For it is very clear from many testimonies of Scripture that circumcision was also a sign of repentance. Then Paul calls it the seal of the righteousness of faith....For although infants, at the very moment they were circumcised, did not comprehend with their understanding what that sign meant, they were truly circumcised to the mortification of their corrupt and defiled nature, a mortification that they would afterward practice in mature years. To sum up, this objection can be solved without difficulty: infants are baptized into future repentance and faith, and even though these have not yet been formed in them, the seed of both lies hidden within them by the secret working of the Spirit.

Some, who believe in God's sovereign election of the "few," also believe that non-elect babies who die will spend eternity suffering in hell. John Calvin said, "there are babies a span long in hell."

 

James;
I am not here to study John Calvin. If you want to spend your time doing so be my guest. What I have read so far I would not want any part to do with the man. I wonder how many Calvinist on this board would escape his wrath. You said you disagreed with him on some things and that is all it took to be a heretic and from there maybe death. I ask you as a christian to a christian would you want someone like John Calvin in the church you are a part of? Would you all the time be worried about you and your family. I mean a woman was in real danger in that time of being called a witch. It could be your wife. That is the kind of man John Calvin was and it is not what I consider a Christian. That is not the only article and that was supposed to be one of his sermons of the babies in hell but there are other articles that say the same thing. I grant you there are Calvin haters that have written things that are not true but it seems as if the dictionary I quoted might be on the up and up. The things I just posted were supposed to be from his sermons. If what I posted is true then why would you or I want to study him. I know you think Paul supported those things in the Institutes but I don't think so. I think you misread them for I believe that every man has had a chance to be saved. If I find something on Grace I will post it, but I am sure you would agree with it for you agree with the Institutes. Now he didn't write them but they were confirmed by his sermons.

 

For the life of me, I can't see why you don't see the hypocrisy in the following sermon of Grace by Calvin;

If that is not double talk I just don't understand.

He wants his cake and eat it too. He says all and even goes on to say invites them all to the faith in Christ. Then he takes it away. It is the same kind of talk you and the others have to say we have a choice but we can't have it because of who we are. Double talk!

 

Bob, we do not care about Calvins sermons.
We are not Calvin worshipers
What James is asking for is for you to take one of the "Doctrines of Grace" commonly known as Calvinism and tell us from the Bible where you see them as wrong.

Please stop attacking Calvin. We don't really care what someone who lived 500 years ago said or believed.

I knew an Armenian who had an affair. So? Who cares?
That is what the whole pst was started about. Ad hominem, argument against the person, not the doctrine.

HOw certain Calvinists have hurt your feelings makes no difference.

FTR I think your accusations of Calvin's murderous ways are quite false but at any rate, it makes no difference to what the Bible says.

Quite shooting the messenger and disprove the message....if you can.

Otherwise, take you slanderous insults elsewhere.

 

BB , get your facts straight . John Wesley( 200 years after Calvin ) originated the stupid line about babies being a span long in hell . He said that's what Calvinists believed . The trouble was --- no Calvinist said it . It's just like his line that he falsely accused Augustus Toplady of writing -- something like " Only one in 20 are the elect and the others -- let them be damned ." Non-Cals making these unfounded charges and trying to put them in the mouths of Calvinists are to be pitied . Lies are still perpetuatd to this day . Dealing with the record of Scripture is not enough for some . Your John Calvin puppet routine is getting stale .

 

Brobob, I hate to pile on here (no I don't or else I wouldn't do it) but your red font is getting quite tiring also.

 

That is not what James ask me to do Dale.

 

Rippon;
you are starting to get to me so back off.

 

Let me tell you Calvinist something if you don't like my discussion with James then leave. I don't remember asking you to join in. James ask me a question and I am doing my best to answer him and it is between him and I. He did ask me to get something Calvin had said on Grace and that is what I just did. So bug off.
J.D. I don't care whether you like the red or not, you got that?

John Calvin:
"There are babies a span long in hell."
"Hence, even infants bringing their condemnation with them from their mother's womb, suffer not for another's, but for their own defect. For although they have not yet produced the fruits of their own unrighteousness, they have the seed implanted in them. Nay, their whole nature is, as it were, a seed-bed of sin, and therefore cannot but be odious and abominable to God. Hence, it follows, that it is properly deemed sinful in the sight of God; for there could be no condemnation without guilt" (2.1.8. Institutes).
"I again ask how it is that the fall of Adam involves so many nations with their infants children in eternal death without remedy, unless that it so seemed meet to God?" (3.23.7. Institutes

 

John Calvin:
"There are babies a span long in hell."
"Hence, even infants bringing their condemnation with them from their mother's womb, suffer not for another's, but for their own defect. For although they have not yet produced the fruits of their own unrighteousness, they have the seed implanted in them. Nay, their whole nature is, as it were, a seed-bed of sin, and therefore cannot but be odious and abominable to God. Hence, it follows, that it is properly deemed sinful in the sight of God; for there could be no condemnation without guilt" (2.1.8. Institutes).
"I again ask how it is that the fall of Adam involves so many nations with their infants children in eternal death without remedy, unless that it so seemed meet to God?" (3.23.7. Institutes

This is John Calvin's sermon

 

James;
It would be nice if I didn't have to confront the John Calvin doctrine but that is not possible on this board. There are too many Calvinist on here so I guess we will carry on to carry on.

I can't find Calvinist in the Scriptures at all. I do find Christians though. God Bless,

 

Brobob, this rancor is getting too personal. Tell ya what, let's me and you find something we agree on and be on the same side for a change. Do you ever post in any of the other topical forums?

 

Every where I go the C/A comes up the first thing and I respond. I think its too pesonal too but people are not going to talk to me like you just did "you wanted to pour it on" like rippon did "get your facts straight" like Dale did when James and I were really getting along pretty good and you three came in and everything went crazy again. I came back on and there was three posts attacking me. I posted John Calvin's sermons saying babies in hell and was told to get my facts straight. Well I think others need to get their facts straight.

Now if we are to be nice to each other you will find that I can be very nice and would much much rather talk and enjoy this but when I am attacked it is my nature to respond. I have always been that way and I am too old to change. I hope we can work this out and be friends maybe.

 

Bob, do you believe that the Song of Solomon describes God's love for His people? If so, come over to the thread on the Song of Solomon and help me. Apparently, I'm the only soul on this board that believes that.

 

Do you not have the freewill to change that BB?

Seriously though. I am fine with a nice factual discussion. I for one would love to talk on point. BUt you keep bringing up Calvin's sermons and both James and I have stated that we do not believe everything that Calvin taught so that doesn't matter.

I can't speak for James, but if you would like to discuss based soley on what they Bible says and not what John Calvin preached, then fine.
But please do not keep bringing up things that none of us believe that are off the point.

Oh, and if you misunderstood my post earlier, I do apologize.
I did NOT mean to attach you, I was only trying to show one way that one might attack the person rather than the issue. If I was unclear, please accept my sincere apology.

Dale

 

There you go Dale laying it all in my lap when you never stop. That is the problem you think when someone else says something it is wrong but you never see how you are always spitting venom.
If its going to stop it has to be a 2 way street. Now if you are going to keep quoting the 5 point institutes then John Calvin is a natural part of it. I don't see if Calvin is not Calvinist then why does it bother you and rippon and others when John Calvin is attacked.