ADD/ADHD: Disease or Croc?

[Benjamin]

but here's what i got to say ==> ADD/ADHD can be a disease. it can also be caused by spiritual warfare. it goes both ways. but WHY do we need to go to some flippin specialist for it? doesn' GOD HEAL PEOPLE??

Or it can simply be a way a person is wired from birth.

i don't give a care to what specialists say about the disease - i don't care when they deem it to be a disease or not.

Well, since I agree it is grossly misdiagnosed and don’t really deem it as a disease I have very little respect for what the “specialist” say about it myself in that light.

God heals. heck i was labelled as ADD... i ain't ADD anymore. wanna know the reason why? do ya? GOD IS THE REASON.

The reason is is that you didn’t have ADD in the since that I know it. Tons of people are falsely diagnosed with ADD, not only do I seriously doubt you ever experienced the real issue but it makes it null whether or not you have it anymore. If you were wired with a serious form of ADD it would be a miracle comparable to the parting of the Red Sea, in my opinion, to be instantly cured!

why go to a specialist? doesn't God heal these days? doesn't prayer work anymore?

If I had the chance to be helped with methods of learning to cope or improve against distractions/interruptions in thought by a “specialist” I would jump at the chance and thank God for it. Yes, God heals and prayer does work; I live the ongoing process and glory in the results, but again if it happened overnight in the form of a miracle, well all I could say is that would be a very overwhelming experience.

ADD as I know and understand it is not what every Tom, Dick and Harry says they or their kids have, in that since it may be some hyperactivity in normal growth patterns that need to be dealt with through these ideas of nutrition, discipline, and teaching and possibly caused by some form of lazyness. I don’t doubt there are doctors that question whether or not it exists as it has become a catch-all phrase with a perfect example right here on this board of someone saying “I ain’t ADD anymore” I doubt you come close to understanding it or ever had what you take credit for getting over and I’ll second the HOOEY!

 

[Benjamin]

of what proof do we have that this is a real disorder?

is there stats and graphs and scans that have been done?
could those be provided please?

i'm just curious that's all.

What proof do you have then that you ever had it?

 

[Benjamin]

It's greatly overdigangosed, IMO, and here are some factors (different factors for different kids...and in no particular order):
1. Bad parenting/lack of consistent, relationship-based, loving discipline.
2. The difference in boys and girls. Boys are rowdier, and the overwhelming number of ADHD "cases" are young males.
3. Overstimulization...an MD friend of mine believes that our brains, through media today, learn to process images faster than what is healthy...and they do it a lot. The rise in ADHD cases does mirror the increase in media exposure (TV, web, gaming, etc.) to children (and adults too).
4. Poor nutrition...not enough good stuff (veggies, vitamins) and too much bad stuff (processed food, sugar, caffeine).
5. (esp. boys) The lack of a consistent male figure in the home.
6. Laziness in our education system. It's easier to drug them than discipline them...not to mention the lack of home support in many cases. They also don't take into account in some instances differing learning styles (I'm seeing some progress here at least on the local level).
7. Overexposure of the crisis by professionals with a vested interest (psychiatrists, pharmaceutical companies, professional educators, etc.)

Now...having said that, I do believe that this can exist. I have met kids with such an amazing inability to focus that it was crippling. But I believe that psychotropic meds should be the last resort after rest, nutrition, discipline (if needed), curtailment of overstimuli (greatly reduce media time) exercise, and creative teaching methods (not all folks learn the same way) have been explored.

But that number left would be a fraction of what it is now.

Most of what you have described and gave remedy for, which you first said, and I agree is greatly over diagnosed, you seem to have turned right around and lumped these things together and labeled them as an “overwhelming number of ADHD cases”. From your remedies I don’t think you understand what a true ADD case is; it seems you are referring to the misdiagnosed cases in error your self.

I also agree the use of meds are no doubt a tragedy especially in the light of misdiagnoses, and not anything more than an inferior bandage that doesn’t help the actual cause anyway. Nutrition, discipline and all may help for those being misdiagnosed but if a REAL disorder this type of wiring exists, FORGET IT, and FORGET the lumping of the two together; you need to distinguish between the misdiagnosed or mild similar cases and the actual disorders. Sorry, but you’re way off when you lump these things together.

I don’t know, there may/must be differing degrees and/or with similarities with symptoms, and certainly not all folks learn the same but you’re in a whole different league from what I do know on a personal level from a struggle I have lived with against “attention disorders” which I wouldn’t necessarily agree that it has to do with paying attention as a “deficit”, but with the difficulty of separating the many things in attention.

There may even be legitimate specialized teaching methods for differing degrees of ADD that may work for certain cases but the professionals have not even cracked the surface of understanding well enough for a good diagnoses or a cure for the different patterns of thought to remedy them in an acceptable workable order to function as others would imagine one should. They have not even begun to find a system to get around these types of difficulties in learning certain things that I know of. If you know of something productive I would like to hear it!

Just one example:

In my personal case it took 11 years just to correct my speech enough to be understood; I had to slow down and deal with the jumping thoughts and to get to realize that people could not grasp my communications the way I was delivering them and the pronunciation of those sounds with thoughts was an extreme challenge to which I had an arsenal of teachers trying to help me, they sat me up by their desk in school and worked with me while the other kids did other things; many special people worked to help with my speech and learning skills.

Anyway, I can tell you it falls into the other senses also such as the way I heard and processed those things which I heard, not even knowing what the difference was. I was shocked to find out I could not even understand myself when I heard myself on a tape recorder; that realization and subsequent rapid improvement surprised and thrilled the doctors and speech therapists. It seems to me that others should understand my grouped together thoughts, speed of delivery and sounds but I have to go over and over them again to separate them out and slow it down as if I were talking to someone who spoke a foreign language and was translating, all along struggling with more thoughts bumping the direction away from what I’m trying to focus on and relay.

 

[Benjamin]

Either people are totally mistaken that they or their children have ADD, or I have a different or more severe form of it, or I have something different going on altogether. The presumptions made from those who think they are diagnosing this is on a misnomer altogether or people have a lot to learn about the truth of what this involves. Not much I've read here sounds right!

 

[gekko]

What proof do you have then that you ever had it?

haha. i don't. good point though. maybe i never did have it.

maybe nobody has ever had it. maybe it's demons. maybe it's all in our heads.

anybody have scans of their brain at the time they had ADD? probably not. who knows though.

so really what proof do we have of anyone having any kind of disorder?

 

[UnchartedSpirit]

that's because the trend for humanity is not to care for people who cant care for themselves. Christians aren't immune to it, or they need to rethink their doctrines. The other thing is the stryotypes and lies that the media puts out are still the only ways people even know that ADD exists. That is also the reason why people are rushing to use it as a crutch, like middle aged people who are just blown away by the advances society has made...

 

[Ed Edwards]

Amen, Brother TragicL_pizza.
I second your 'hooey' and raise you a pbttttttttttttttttttt!

In Feb 1971 i was identified & treated for 'depression'.
In 2007 what was then called 'depression' and had one
treatment (lithium) is known as:

1. ADD
2. ADHD
3. Clinical depression
4. Bipolar syndrome
5. multi-personality syndrome

not to mention a currently untreateable:

6. non-specific depression

Some 5% of children 5 to 15 have ADHD.
What is the problem?
Does it hurt?
Should we let these children suffer?
It might be good for their soul to purge their
sins?

 

[gekko]

that made no sense Ed...

 

[Ed Edwards]

that made no sense Ed...

Then we are Brothers Of the Obscure (BOO!)

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

IMHO, they are both real disorders, but they are vastly overused.

When a school has 90% of it's students on medication or a home has all of it's children on medication - me thinks some adult is just too lazy to deal with the kids.

I would believe it if a child had to have 'clinical' tests before they were diagnosed to prove they had a disorder and weren't just 'hyper'.

When I was growing up, a quick slap would send ADD flying out the window. We called it daydreaming...

 

[xdisciplex]

But that is just a guess :wavey:*

This is the Baptist wavy: waves only one hand,
feet never leave the ground (i.e. non-dancing).

:laugh: :thumbs:

 

[tragic_pizza]

In my personal case it took 11 years just to correct my speech enough to be understood; I had to slow down and deal with the jumping thoughts and to get to realize that people could not grasp my communications the way I was delivering them and the pronunciation of those sounds with thoughts was an extreme challenge to which I had an arsenal of teachers trying to help me, they sat me up by their desk in school and worked with me while the other kids did other things; many special people worked to help with my speech and learning skills.

Anyway, I can tell you it falls into the other senses also such as the way I heard and processed those things which I heard, not even knowing what the difference was. I was shocked to find out I could not even understand myself when I heard myself on a tape recorder; that realization and subsequent rapid improvement surprised and thrilled the doctors and speech therapists. It seems to me that others should understand my grouped together thoughts, speed of delivery and sounds but I have to go over and over them again to separate them out and slow it down as if I were talking to someone who spoke a foreign language and was translating, all along struggling with more thoughts bumping the direction away from what I’m trying to focus on and relay.

My experience with a loved one is similar.

 

[ccdnt]

As a parent of 2 boys with it, I know it exists.. .please read my previous post.

Saying in effect, "my children or I have it and therefore it exists," is not proof. Anyone could essentially claim this about anything. This still could be where just different people respond differently to different learning environments and not because of some disorder. Again, as I have read, there exists no conclusive biological test for this; there are no objective diagnostic criteria . It is mainly diagnosed from seeing if someone exhibits certain behavioral and/or learning traits. For a diagnosis for a disorder to exist that is based on whether or not a child exhibits certain behaviors, there has to be accepted "normal" behaviors for which to compare the behavior to. Who decides which behaviors are normal which are not? Is this universal or does it vary by culture? With a bonafid disorder that has some sort of biological marker, it would not matter what culture one was part of. Regardless of what behaviors were considered the norm for that particular culture, the person would either have the biological marker or he would not.

 

[tragic_pizza]

"It can't be tested for, therefore it doesn't exist."

Hog wash.

Fibromyalgia exists.

Chronic Fatigue Syndrome exists.

ADD/ ADHD exists.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Exactly SO, Brother Tragic Pizza.

I was looking up ADD & ADHD.
I ran across a psycological test for adult ADD.
It was a site that wanted to sell stuff,
so wasn't very good beyond a YES/NO.
First time I came up with adult ADD.
I changed one answer, one degree and
it said i probably did NOT have adult ADD.

 

[Jim1999]

I am chiming in here somewhat late, but whether an affliction is real or imagined, it remains real to those who suffer with it, and we ought to deal with it rather seriously. It is quite handicapping, and some physicians have had reasonable success. Those who discard it as unreal do an injustice to those folks, and that is the sad part.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Scarlett O.]

Regardless of what behaviors were considered the norm for that particular culture, the person would either have the biological marker or he would not.

After having gone through the tragedy of Alzheimer's Disease with two of my grandparents, my family and I learned that there are no biological markers for that disease either....

....well, none that can be useful for diagnosis until after the person is dead and an autopsy is performed.

An Alzheimer's Disease diagnosis is a diagnosis of exclusion. That's what we were told. You test for everything else that could be causing dementia and when everything else is excluded, then the brain, which can't be dissected until after death is diagnosed with Alzheimer's.

Even the build up of cerebrospinal fluid is not a biological marker in isolation.

Alzheimer's Disease is largely diagnosed by the symptoms, not the physical evidence of the brain.

************************************************************

ADD/ADHD is very real. I have taught children with this disorder. I have also taught children who were diagnosed incorrectly.

One of my neighbor's children was a little 4 year old boy who was hell on wheels. He was out of control, non-responsive to spankings or discipline or punishments, and he was probably go to end up giving his parents' heart attacks.

They decided to take him to a doctor about his behavior and the doctor diagnosed him with ADHD in about 30 minutes after their description of his wild behavior. He ran no standard tests.

He was promptly put on medication and he turned immediately into a zombie who could not finish a complete sentence, who stared into space, and who drooled all of the time.

My neighbors took him for a second opinion to another pediatrician.

This person put the little boy through the ringer to exclude anything else. You know what they found?

He has high blood pressure. Who knew that 4 years olds got high blood pressure!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

They took him off of the ADHD medication and placed him on high blood pressure medications. He is a normal 1st grader and is a pleasant to be around as any child that age can be.

***********************************************************

ADD/ADHD is tragically overdiagnosed. Because there are no biological markers, it, like Alzheimer's should be a diagnosis of exclusion.

Everything else that can be test for that would cause these symptoms, should be tested for.

The family's pattern of discipline should be checked. The school's climate should be checked. There should be a meeting of the pediatrician, the parents, and any other adult who has supervision over the child for prolonged periods of time, including the teacher who can contribute professional insights (not diagnoses) and/or grandparents who babysit for extended daytime hours every day.

Science has made some acknowledgements that adults with ADD/ADHD tend to have an extreme right-brain dominance, but that is not being used as yet as a biological marker.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Isn't the difficulty here about how we know whether or not someone has it? It is a psychiatric determination, not a medical one. It is diagnosed by a series of "do you often do this" questions. It often does not explore other explanations for why someone might do something.

And we treat symptoms, not causes. And we treat them with drugs that we do not know the long terms affects of. And to me, that is dangerous, especially given the over diagnosis.

There are a number of factors outside of ADD that cause ADD type behavior. When I was young, I had a hard time paying attention in class. My parents finally figured out it was because I was bored. I learned at such a faster rate than everyone else that I did other things. When I didn't have a challenge, I goofed off. Once, I had a teacher put me in the back of the class because back there I wouldn't disturb anyone. Finally, I had a teacher that understood me and challenged me. In 23 years of education, that was hands down teh best teacher I ever had, and the best two years of my life. (Because of class size (two few for another complete class, but too many for the two already full classes in each grade), she taught a fifth and sixth grade combination class for top students. So I had her two years).

Learning disorders can also cause the symptoms of ADD (dyslexia, illiteracy, etc.) Over stimulation with video games and TV can cause the symptoms of ADD. Not enough sleep can cause it. Unstable home life can cause it. Inconsistent schedules can cause it. Lack of exercise can cause it. There are a ton of other explanations.

I had one kid who was constantly cutting up. In my office, I asked him why he was doing it. He said it was becuase he couldn't read. I said "No one's askingN\ you to read anything. You aren't misbehaving because you can't read." After further conversation, where he continually fidgeted, I said "Fold your hands and sit still." After several corrections, he did it. He and I looked at each other for about 15 minutes, with no conversation. I said, "See, you can sit still. You are simply do not want to sit still."

That kid was from a mess of a family. But somewhere along the line, someone had excused his rebellious heart with illiteracy. In the process, they had done him a great disservice. He did not want to listen to authority. He did not want to obey anyone. And his parents and teachers tolerated it.

I say all that to say this: There are a lot of things that should be tried before medication, particularly given the lack of understanding about medical causes and the long term affects of medicine.

Let's try getting mom and dad to be mom and dad, to set the example, to interact in their lives, to get them off their butts from in front of the TV and computer and out in the yard playing and burning off energy. Let's pull the plug on video games. It's cheaper. It will probably work. And the long term affects are excellent.

 

[Lagardo]

Back in the mid-90's, I was an undergrad research assistant in the Child Psych Lab at the University of Missouri. That position doesn't amount to much more than slave labor, but every once in a while, the head researcher, Dr. Lizzette Peterson-Homer would speak to us. She was a well respected, well published child psychologist.

I asked her once what her opinion of ADHD was. She said it is a real, physical problem of the frontal lobe. She then said, that way too many people were dagnosed with it and treated with medicatione ven though no physical cause had been tested. She said that a lof of fators can produce similar behavioral problems: discipline, diet, exercise, etc. And that if it were her child, she'd want to see how all of those effected the outcome, then see the tests that showed a slow frontal lobe, and then see pharmacological treatment.

It made sense to me.

 

[tragic_pizza]

You want to talk about diseases of exclusion which are tragically misdiagnosed, let's talk about SIDS.