Additional Reasons People Leave The Church.

[annsni]

Why stop at that point in your answer? Is something or someone preventing you from saying exactly what your husband materially does, and how your husband is supposedly representative of all other pastors?

It's the old, "Well, I personally know someone who ..." Lol.

Do, are you able here with my question now to obey Jesus' Command, "Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good words." Remember, Jesus there (Matthew 5:16) was not offering dupposed "humility" as a weak little excuse for not obeying His Command there.

Or, how about if you gey your husband in here to speak for himself, rathet than just talking at the church office all day?

OK - Well, I'll just tell you last week:

Wow - quite cynical, huh? I'd get my husband on here but right now but he's a bit busy dealing with finding a building for us to meet in. Right now we meet in a hotel and it's time to leave (the hotel didn't even plow the parking lot after 8+ inches of snow and it was very difficult for some of our congregation to get into the building). He will be meeting with the landlord and then the town board as well as making sure all of our paperwork is in order.

After that, he has a counseling appointment (very serious stuff going on that I can't talk about but let me tell you, Satan has been at work in many people's lives!) and then he has to go to a single mom's house to help her with a leaky faucet. Then it's home to change the dead battery in my daughter's car, more studying for his message on Sunday (we're going through Haggai) and potentially, we will both be going to another single mom's home to work on some faulty family dynamics - as she is facing a leukemia diagnosis.

Then it's dinner time. After dinner, he will try to get some rest because he's been ill and down to only 55% lung capacity from the illness and this single digit temp hasn't been helping but he may have to do some more legal paperwork for our lease that we are hoping to get into the landlord ASAP so we can file the paperwork with the town on Friday to be able to get the permits to meet in our new space.

So what are YOU doing today?

I have to say that my husband is working as hard right now on this church (and doing incredible ministry) as he did when he worked in the audio industry as one of the pioneers in digital sound recording. But God called him to ministry and he left that very lucrative field to fix a woman's faucet and sit by a family as we deal with some deep issues as well as bringing the Word of God to a very hard field.

 

[InTheLight]

Catering to the hypersensitive little perceptions of pewsitters merely enables their continuing immaturity, and leaves them with no spiritual satisfaction. Then, they leave.

Yes, this could be a problem. Have you been to many churches where you have personally witnessed this?

Along with this unanswered question, you didn't answer any of my points. Why should I answer your questions if you don't respond to mine?

Also, you did not provide examples of Preacherese.

 

[Stegley]

OK - Well, I'll just tell you last week:

Wow - quite cynical, huh? I'd get my husband on here but right now but he's a bit busy dealing with finding a building for us to meet in. Right now we meet in a hotel and it's time to leave (the hotel didn't even plow the parking lot after 8+ inches of snow and it was very difficult for some of our congregation to get into the building). He will be meeting with the landlord and then the town board as well as making sure all of our paperwork is in order.

After that, he has a counseling appointment (very serious stuff going on that I can't talk about but let me tell you, Satan has been at work in many people's lives!) and then he has to go to a single mom's house to help her with a leaky faucet. Then it's home to change the dead battery in my daughter's car, more studying for his message on Sunday (we're going through Haggai) and potentially, we will both be going to another single mom's home to work on some faulty family dynamics - as she is facing a leukemia diagnosis.

Then it's dinner time. After dinner, he will try to get some rest because he's been ill and down to only 55% lung capacity from the illness and this single digit temp hasn't been helping but he may have to do some more legal paperwork for our lease that we are hoping to get into the landlord ASAP so we can file the paperwork with the town on Friday to be able to get the permits to meet in our new space.

So what are YOU doing today?

I have to say that my husband is working as hard right now on this church (and doing incredible ministry) as he did when he worked in the audio industry as one of the pioneers in digital sound recording. But God called him to ministry and he left that very lucrative field to fix a woman's faucet and sit by a family as we deal with some deep issues as well as bringing the Word of God to a very hard field.

Yes, I am familiar with how in their minds females relate "everything to everything!!", especially when they feel a little defensive. As a pastor, your husband just basically "talks." And, Yes, he does fix faucets in between talking, as most other nontalking men do.

Are there no preexisting Godly churches in your area where you and your people might join? Or, does your husband have a ... "special" ... ministry, where he can do it better than the other churches in town ... ?

 

[Stegley]

Yes, this could be a problem. Have you been to many churches where you have personally witnessed this?

Along with this unanswered question, you didn't answer any of my points. Why should I answer your questions if you don't respond to mine?

Also, you did not provide examples of Preacherese.

For all of your ... "points" ... which involved asking me if I had personally seen many of the particular issues, the answer is "Yes." I speak of things I constantly see in babbling and busy churches.

As well, I have worked for 30 years with a pastoral missionary organization which is largely the exception to the 10 issues I listed for you above. These Godly Pastors are carefully vetted and selected to not be the typical do-nothing babblers like normal preachers. Over the years I have known and worked with about 500 of them. I know the real deal when I see it.

 

[Revmitchell]

Yes, I am familiar with how in their minds females relate "everything to everything!!", especially when they feel a little defensive. As a pastor, your husband just basically "talks." And, Yes, he does fix faucets in between talking, as most other nontalking men do.

Are there no preexisting Godly churches in your area where you and your people might join? Or, does your husband have a ... "special" ... ministry, where he can do it better than the other churches in town ... ?

Hey there bub,

You are speaking about things you know nothing of. Her husband is the pastor of a church that is planted by another church. I suggest you take you take your arrogance down the road and grow up. Attacking people over things you do not know the details of will not fly around here.

 

[KJVRICH]

For all of your ... "points" ... which involved asking me if I had personally seen many of the particular issues, the answer is "Yes." I speak of things I constantly see in babbling and busy churches.

As well, I have worked for 30 years with a pastoral missionary organization which is largely the exception to the 10 issues I listed for you above. These Godly Pastors are carefully vetted and selected to not be the typical do-nothing babblers like normal preachers. Over the years I have known and worked with about 500 of them. I know the real deal when I see it.

sounds like this is an area you excel in !

 

[annsni]

Yes, I am familiar with how in their minds females relate "everything to everything!!", especially when they feel a little defensive. As a pastor, your husband just basically "talks." And, Yes, he does fix faucets in between talking, as most other nontalking men do.

How many single moms do you help each week? I'd love to hear the number of people that you personally minister to and are on speed dial anytime there is a problem.

Are there no preexisting Godly churches in your area where you and your people might join? Or, does your husband have a ... "special" ... ministry, where he can do it better than the other churches in town ... ?

Actually, no. There are no preexisting Godly churches in the area that we have our campus. It is one of the largest school districts around with very few Evangelical churches there. There is one Baptist church that is KJVO, one VERY Pentacostal church there too (they have a Miracle Service every Thursday night, if you'd like to attend). Then there are the Mormons down the road along with the Jehovah's Witnesses, one other church plant that started at the hotel across the street from us (we haven't been able to meet with that pastor yet) and of course the Catholic churches, Episcopal churches and synagogues as well. It's VERY underserved by Bible teaching Evangelical churches.

 

[Stegley]

How many single moms do you help each week? I'd love to hear the number of people that you personally minister to and are on speed dial anytime there is a problem.



Actually, no. There are no preexisting Godly churches in the area that we have our campus. It is one of the largest school districts around with very few Evangelical churches there. There is one Baptist church that is KJVO, one VERY Pentacostal church there too (they have a Miracle Service every Thursday night, if you'd like to attend). Then there are the Mormons down the road along with the Jehovah's Witnesses, one other church plant that started at the hotel across the street from us (we haven't been able to meet with that pastor yet) and of course the Catholic churches, Episcopal churches and synagogues as well. It's VERY underserved by Bible teaching Evangelical churches.

It does not require a "called" preacher who has lots of loose time on his hands to minister to single moms. Do "single moms" have a specisl place in your heart? Ever thought about handing out some free birth controls to them in the name of Jesus and Godly Wisdom?

Thank you for chatting. You have wonderful mannerisms and I am sure love your husband very much. Bless your heart.

 

[Stegley]

sounds like this is an area you excel in !

Actually, I minister to lesbians and the mentally impaired.

 

[annsni]

It does not require a "called" preacher who has lots of loose time on his hands to minister to single moms.

What loose time?

Do "single moms" have a specisl place in your heart?

Yes, because that seems to be who God is sending us to minister to.

Ever thought about handing out some free birth controls to them in the name of Jesus and Godly Wisdom?

That is quite offensive, honestly. These women are women who are not bearing children anymore but are being responsible and taking care of the ones that had with a man who abandoned them.

 

[evenifigoalone]

I thought your OP had some valid points (some are, although they'd have to be decided on a case-by-case basis), but reading the rest of the thread you really do come off as very abrasive. You expect people to listen to you when all of your responses to them involve taunting and ad hominem? You want people to address your arguments and not you, yet you do this tenfold in response to them?

 

[plain_n_simple]

You don't believe that pastors have a 'real job'?

They absolutely have a real job, and it furthers the gospel! It's the approach and the results that mostly are flesh and fall short.

Its not a super bad thing, people just dont know there is more. Paul thanked God for people who preached out of a faulty calling.
It is not a condemnation to say a preacher is not walking in the power when measured with Jesus' ministry. Its a challenge to reach the mark, Him.
If there are not miracles,
or reports of them, or talk of the possibilities coming, or anything supernatural like Jesus did, it aint authentic. It is a lesser substitute.

He just does not know the power available to his ministry. If a sincere seeker, once a pastor realizes that his methods lead him nowhere, he will get humble, throw away the latest method fad, and start to depend on Jesus to tell him what to say EVERY TIME HE SPEAKS.

When the PRO Trained Preacher denies himself, then, power will come.
The pro-preacher becomes a servant, not an occupation.
He will no longer send the mentally ill to the psychiatrist for talk and drugs
He will no longer think that doctors have replaced the Great physician
He will no longer dress the staff up as clowns and put on shows and banquets to gain the attention of teachable children, miracles alone will draw them in for miles!
He will no longer devise and strive for funding, God will provide and does not need man's business school
He will no longer pray so many unanswered prayers
His focus will always be on Jesus, not on sin
He will no longer list schools and certificates as proof God sent him, the signs speak for him

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

You don't believe that pastors have a 'real job'?

If it doesn't originate in his mind, he doesn't believe much of anything.

Just a heads up ...

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

They absolutely have a real job, and it furthers the gospel! It's the approach and the results that mostly are flesh and fall short.

Its not a super bad thing, people just dont know there is more. Paul thanked God for people who preached out of a faulty calling.
It is not a condemnation to say a preacher is not walking in the power when measured with Jesus' ministry. Its a challenge to reach the mark, Him.
If there are not miracles,
or reports of them, or talk of the possibilities coming, or anything supernatural like Jesus did, it aint authentic. It is a lesser substitute.

He just does not know the power available to his ministry. If a sincere seeker, once a pastor realizes that his methods lead him nowhere, he will get humble, throw away the latest method fad, and start to depend on Jesus to tell him what to say EVERY TIME HE SPEAKS.

When the PRO Trained Preacher denies himself, then, power will come.

So throw away the seminary degree, the study guides, concordances, lexicons, Bible dictionaries, and just wait for the Holy Spirit to give him the words?

Have I got that right?

The pro-preacher becomes a servant, not an occupation.

Every pastor I've know, with one exception, exhibited the qualities of a servant anyway.

He will no longer send the mentally ill to the psychiatrist for talk and drugs

There are issues that require the training of these professionals who have a biblical perspective, and denying that is exceptionally naïve.

He will no longer think that doctors have replaced the Great physician

Ah, just lay hands on 'em and they'll all be cured, right? Works for Benny Hinn, doesn't it? Oh, sorry, bad example. Well, I'm sure you can give me a good example.

He will no longer dress the staff up as clowns and put on shows and banquets to gain the attention of teachable children, miracles alone will draw them in for miles!

Laying aside the curious reference to clowns, shows and banquets, I'll note that this is the second time you've mentioned miracles. Perhaps you can share with us what kind of miracles you're talking about. I don't suppose the miracle of savlation through solid preaching would qualify?

He will no longer devise and strive for funding, God will provide and does not need man's business school

Ah, so God will just instill he and the church leadership with the qualities of good stewards? They don't have to have any Earthly knowledge of finance, business practices, etc.?

He will no longer pray so many unanswered prayers

And you know for a fact that all who pray outside a church like this -- like yours, I presume -- don't get those prayers answered?

His focus will always be on Jesus, not on sin

That's the only thing you've said that actually makes sense.

He will no longer list schools and certificates as proof God sent him, the signs speak for him

" ... and wonders" no doubt.

 

[Revmitchell]

The op has no valid points. the author has been brainwashed by the official house church movement. It is a rebellious movement and ungoldy.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

The op has no valid points. the author has been brainwashed by the official house church movement. It is a rebellious movement and ungoldy.

And Mr. Plain_n_simple is woefully out of place in a Baptist forum.

 

[evenifigoalone]

I think they have some good points, from talking with home church advocates before. Although I'd agree that they're exaggerated.
But as far as concept goes...home church, traditional church...whatever works best for someone, y'know? Seems to me the idea of a home church doesn't have to necessarily be based on rebellion or hard feelings anymore than traditional churches are necessarily all talk and no action. I don't believe either are inherently wrong.

 

[Revmitchell]

I think they have some good points, from talking with them before. Although I'd agree that they're exaggerated.
But as far as concept goes...home church, traditional church...whatever works best for someone, y'know? Seems to me the idea of a home church doesn't have to necessarily be based on rebellion or hard feelings anymore than traditional churches are necessarily all talk and no action.

There is no problem with home churches but that is not the same thing as the official house church movement. I suggest you do some research on that. They despise preaching, church organization, church leadership etc. That is a huge theological problem. And what is worse they constantly characterize the traditional church in extreme rhetoric. Like this knucklehead in the op.

 

[evenifigoalone]

There is no problem with home churches but that is not the same thing as the official house church movement. I suggest you do some research on that. They despise preaching, church organization, church leadership etc. That is a huge theological problem. And what is worse they constantly characterize the traditional church in extreme rhetoric. Like this knucklehead in the op.

While I haven't read much on them, I have debated with one about it before and they brought all that up.

 

[Revmitchell]

While I haven't read much on them, I have debated with one about it before and they brought all that up.

http://www.hccentral.com/

http://www.housechurchresource.org/

It is a rebellious movement and ungodly