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Affirmative Action

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Bro. James Reed

New Member
I'm all for AA. Since Mexicans are now the majority in Houston, I'm now a minority. When do I get my check? :rolleyes:

Did you know that it is impossible to win a contract with the City of Houston unless the company bidding is minority owned? Really despicable.

The City of Pasadena, outskirts of Houston, actually lowered the test standards to become a fireman there because not enough minorities were passing the exam. Several years ago, when my brother had graduated from the academy and applied with the city, only 2 people passed the city's exam in one month (or week, I forget). Both of the men were white. The city refused to hire either of them and instead lowered the standards so minorities with lower scores could get the jobs. I hope those sub-standard firemen are the ones putting out the fires at houses of every supporter of AA. See how they like the sub-standard service from the people they forced to be hired.

All AA does is make the rest of us look down on minorities. They are not helping their case at all.

There is no longer the kind of discrimination in this country that there once was from 'our' side. Now, we are the ones being discriminated against, and we're not going to stand for it too much longer.
 
T

The Galatian

Active Member
I'm all for AA. Since Mexicans are now the majority in Houston, I'm now a minority. When do I get my check?
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I'm afraid that's not how it works. You don't get a check. If you can show that you've been affected by discrimination in the past, you can get a break. No check, sorry.

Did you know that it is impossible to win a contract with the City of Houston unless the company bidding is minority owned? Really despicable.
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Sounds wrong. Sounds impossible. You're claiming no white person who owns a company has gotten a contract with the City of Houston? Are you very sure?
 
B

Biblethumper

New Member
"There is no longer the kind of discrimination in this country that there once was from 'our' side. Now, we are the ones being discriminated against, and we're not going to stand for it too much longer."

Maybe not in the sense that a whole race was inslaved by whites, but you should be very careful about saying there is no more discrimination. (Not that that's what you said.)

Besides whites aren't being discriminated against because of AA, it may be an excuse, but it is not because of AA. Whites have a better chance of getting a job/into college, remember?
 
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The Galatian

Active Member
Actually, the last time someone actually checked, resumes whose names sounded "black" were half as likely to get responses to identical resumes with names that did not.

That being the case, it's pretty hard to defend the idea that discrimination is no longer a problem.
 
S

ScottEmerson

Active Member
They did a study similar to that using college admissions using white, black, and Hispanic sounding names, and found that whites were more likely to get in, even when scores, grades, and extracurriculars were the same.
 
T

The Galatian

Active Member
I wonder, if it were possible to identify one as a Christian, or a non-Christian, if you could show that employers or universities treated us as badly as blacks are treated in America today.
 
B

Biblethumper

New Member
Originally posted by The Galatian:
Actually, the last time someone actually checked, resumes whose names sounded "black" were half as likely to get responses to identical resumes with names that did not.

That being the case, it's pretty hard to defend the idea that discrimination is no longer a problem.
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Yup, the last time some checked was a coupla months ago, BTW.
 
church mouse guy

church mouse guy

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Well, this is a dead issue politically because Bush is too moderate to do anything and the Democrats are a large enough minority to prevent anything from being done. What is unfair about AA is that it gives special consideration to only one minority group, while a larger minority such as Hispanics gets no AA, and neither do other minorities who vote Democrat such as Jews, Muslims, and gays and lesbians.

However, the issue is dead politically and the status quo remains for as far as the eye can see. That is really good that the subject is beyond debate politically because the pressure is now upon the Democrat Party to make the system work.
 
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Pennsylvania Jim

New Member
Originally posted by ScottEmerson:
If the government takes it away, then is it not the government's responsibility to return those rights back?
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Scott,

Rights come from God, not the government. The government can only violate or protect them, it cannot grant them or take them away. This is an important distinction that I encourage you to think about.
 
church mouse guy

church mouse guy

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
The left thinks that rights come from the government, Penn.

I stand corrected. AA helps Hispanics but it does not seem to help other staunch Democrat Party voters such as Jews, Muslims, and gays and lesbians. So of the 4 major minority groups who vote Democrat, only Blacks get AA. Hispanics vote in the majority for Democrats but it is almost split.

And I am concerned about (for example) Polish, Irish, and other ethnic groups who do not get AA.
 
P

Pennsylvania Jim

New Member
It's amazing how some people want to use government force to impose their ideas on everyone else, but then think that it's the other guy who's bigoted.
 
S

ScottEmerson

Active Member
Originally posted by Pennsylvania Jim:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by ScottEmerson:
If the government takes it away, then is it not the government's responsibility to return those rights back?
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Scott,

Rights come from God, not the government. The government can only violate or protect them, it cannot grant them or take them away. This is an important distinction that I encourage you to think about. </font>[/QUOTE]Again, those rights that have been given from God were taken away by the people of this nation. So, why can the government return those rights? Is this not protection of those individuals who have been marginalized? The right to not be oppressed is a right that many people in this country do not have, so why can the government not be a change agent in helping to return that right to those who are in need?
 
S

ScottEmerson

Active Member
Originally posted by church mouse guy:
The left thinks that rights come from the government, Penn.

I stand corrected. AA helps Hispanics but it does not seem to help other staunch Democrat Party voters such as Jews, Muslims, and gays and lesbians. So of the 4 major minority groups who vote Democrat, only Blacks get AA. Hispanics vote in the majority for Democrats but it is almost split.

And I am concerned about (for example) Polish, Irish, and other ethnic groups who do not get AA.
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For those who don't have AA, there is a little piece of law called the Employement Non-Discrimination Act. That covers all of the groups that were mentioned by you.

Affirmative Action exists to right the wrongs of the past. I would imagine that if you could show that there was a longstanding harm for Polish and Irish people that continues to cause them problems in the workforce, then perhaps they should make the case. As it is, I don't know too many (read: any) of those two ethnic groups who feel that they are at a serious disadvantage because of their ethnicity. That's not an issue in 2004, although it remains an issue - a huge one in the areas of hiring, advancement, and government contracts - to Hispanics and Blacks all over the country.
 
church mouse guy

church mouse guy

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
So the minority themselves decide if it is a problem or not. It looks as if Jews, Muslims, and gays and lesbians should start complaining since I am sure that some of them feel discriminated against.

I know here in Indiana there was a case where the judge ruled that a blind man could not fly an airliner.
 
S

ScottEmerson

Active Member
I have Irish descent in me, from the red hair, fair skin, and blue eyes. However, I do not feel marginalized against. I'm still in the majority.

Gays and lesbians complain about discrimination that is different than what AA intends to correct, same with Jewish and Muslim people. AA is about more than felt discrmination, but about righting past wrongs when employment, education, and government contracts are affected.
 
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Scott J

Active Member
Site Supporter
AA is a form of racism in and of itself. It says that black people are inferior and need a lower set of standards.

Past discrimination against one group does not warrant current discrimination against another that had nothing to do with the injustice.

PAJim is also right about gov't having no right to tell a private business who to hire. No one has the legitimate authority to "empower" one person by violating the rights of another person.

I don't believe that whites are superior to blacks therefore I think AA is a violation of both groups.

If blacks are to "catch up", I believe that two things must happen:

1) They must start viewing themselves as and behaving like sovereign individuals with rights of their own and not as an oppressed group with shared rights. They, along with many other Americans of all colors, have a victim mentality. They expect others to have authority over them and to provide for their welfare.

2) They must seize opportunities and become entrepeneural. Employment and education do not necessarily lead to success. The best educated masons in colonial Virginia were slaves. Property and business ownership are the keys to success and genuine freedom.

[ November 29, 2004, 05:54 PM: Message edited by: Scott J ]
 
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