Age of Accountability--Biblical or Mythical??

[Me2]

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam "all" die, even so in Christ shall "all" be made alive.

1Co 15:26 The last enemy [that] shall be destroyed [is] death.

fact: all mankind is placed into death. (Adam)
fact: death is eventually destroyed.
fact: all mankind is placed into life. (Christ)

we all die. We are all placed in Christ.

This is Gods plan for every soul born.
for the ignorant as well as the informed.

If the "age of accountability" is NOT a myth. then it should apply to all who are "created" and do not reach the age of 2 days old. (adam) and additionally apply to all those who are "born" and do not reach the age of 1000 years old. (adams offspring)

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam "all" die, even so in Christ shall "all" be made alive.

Me2

 

[GH]

"Age of accountability" is a myth..

Hi Me2

I agree with your statement. It is another one of those traditions of men that get in the way and of the true spiritual life in Christ. Once again these kinds of teachings put the onus of being born again on oneself. (Did you ask to be born in the physical world? Can you make yourself be born again spiritually?) God awakens and quickens a person's spirit in His own timing. This kind of teaching puts God in a box and makes His word of no effect.

Hey, nice to see you BROTHER (you finally gave it away).

Loveya, GH

 

[GH]

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam "all" die, even so in Christ shall "all" be made alive.

Amen again, Me2,

And doesn't it just make your heart sing praises for such a God?

GH

 

[John Gilmore]

Originally posted by Jim1999:
John Gilmore, what do you make of 2 Samuel 12:23:

But now he is dead (the infant), wherefore should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me."

David can go to the dead infant. Does he mean simply that he will die also? That is hardly going to him. It would appear that this infant will benefit something more...salvation?

Yes, David will go to his son when he dies. David and his son are saved in exactly the same way: their faith in Christ given by the Holy Spirit.

[ October 11, 2003, 12:52 PM: Message edited by: John Gilmore ]

 

[John Gilmore]

double post

 

[Me2]

GH,

there seems to be some here that has never heard the song "jesus loves the little children".

"....All the little children of the world"

when I myself was a little child, I sang this song hundreds of times. i wondered "who is this Jesus".
"He must really love... everybody".

I was saved... when I was 25. as I heard my own daughter sing the very same song.

as we get older though we get more legalistic.
when we desire the law to apply to everyone, of course, we want so strongly to ignorantly excuse our own newborn.

born under the same conditions of the curse, we so blindly overlook. our own children.."Jesus love them". their innocent. "the age of accountability"., yea thats the ticket.

"but for those unbelievers children".."their gonna fry in hell forever". dont forget that "curse thingy".

ignorance abounds.

Isnt it a good thing that God DOESNT ALLOW man to mix up HIS PLAN OF SALVATION, FOR HIS CREATION.

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall ALL be MADE ALIVE.

now back to that song.. makes a little more sense.

"Jesus Loves the little children"
"....all the little children of the world"

Me2

 

[Abiyah]

This is truly a sweet idea, but neither theology nor
doctrine may be built upon a song.

The little Lord Jesus
No crying He makes

 

[Jacob]

Excuse me if I'm mistaken but are GH and Me2 insinuating that they believe in some kind of Universalism?

Jacob.

 

[Abiyah]

It looked that way, but I want to believe I misread them.

 

[Ed Edwards]

I wouldn't bet my eternal soul
on Universalism.
Universalism teaches somehow, somewhere
Jesus will save everybody.

I do know this:

Romans 10:9 (ASV):
because if thou shalt confess with thy mouth Jesus [as] Lord, and shalt believe in thy heart that God raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved:

It is a sure thing, Jesus will save you now.
Maybe, if usually unreliable people
happen to have guessed right, you might
get saved anyway. Ed is going for the
Sure Thing No betting my eternal
bliss on a guess of somebody.

 

[Me2]

Me2 here...

Last Count, I only counted one creator..

that makes him everybodies God and everybody His creation. is that universalism?...

Is your God perfect? Mine is..

That means that whatever he plans..
He successfully accomplishes...

Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected [the same] in hope,
Rom 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
Rom 8:23 And not only [they], but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body.

that means that God subjected man to death so that he could have mercy upon Us. bringing mankind into the life of His Son.
thats the Plan..
All placed in Adam (death), All placed into Christ (life).

during this present age, Christ is selecting his firstfruits. his body. not that there is anything wrong with the rest of mankind. This is the order as planned before the foundation of the world.

Christ, his firstfruits, and then the entire harvest (creation). but we dont see everyone selected to be the firstfruits today. thats where recognizing the nature of God and having faith that he will succeed in his will for his entire creation being fulfilled!

whats his will? hhmm..

Joh 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all [men] unto me.

or,

1Ti 2:3 For this [is] good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.


or is your God, the one that men describe as:
only successfully saving around 5% and the other 95% ending up being eternally tormented in literal "fire and brimstone".

Is that your God?.

then if your concerned about the unborn or the young in age dying.
you better hope that the "age of accountability" is true and not a myth.
seeing as your God is running at about a 95% failure rate

My God loves all of his creation. "all" will be placed in his Son...as planned before the foundation of the world.

Me2

 

[Frogman]

For anyone building eternity of 1 Cor. 15.22 please note Rev. 20.15...too.

Then read the context of Rev. 15 and note there is a resurrection of the unjust. Note these shall be judged at this time. Note then in 1 Cor. 15.22 that the life spoken of is found to be that by Jesus Christ came the resurrection of the dead. But don't stop here. Note in Acts 17 how that we have our movements in him, thus meaning present life in this world.

Then put it together to see what 1 Cor. 15.22 is talking about.

Bro. Dallas

 

[Frogman]

So, by comparison to the bar mitzphah, is this making the age of accountability a legal recognition of entering into society?

Is the same as being born into the family of man and being born dead in trespasses and sins?

Thanks for all the replies. I agree as human beings we seek comfort, but is there real comfort in a lie?

I am not asking anyone to tell grieving parents there child may not have been of the elect and therefore may not be now in heaven. I just wonder if it is right to use a blanket reasoning for it. Isn't it blanket reasoning that focuses on one aspect of something and ignores all the other truth revealed about that something?

Bro. Dallas

 

[GH]

Originally posted by Me2:
Me2 here...

Last Count, I only counted one creator..

that makes him everybodies God and everybody His creation. is that universalism?...

Is your God perfect? Mine is..

That means that whatever he plans..
He successfully accomplishes...

Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected [the same] in hope,
Rom 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
Rom 8:23 And not only [they], but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body.

that means that God subjected man to death so that he could have mercy upon Us. bringing mankind into the life of His Son.
thats the Plan..
All placed in Adam (death), All placed into Christ (life).

during this present age, Christ is selecting his firstfruits. his body. not that there is anything wrong with the rest of mankind. This is the order as planned before the foundation of the world.

Christ, his firstfruits, and then the entire harvest (creation). but we dont see everyone selected to be the firstfruits today. thats where recognizing the nature of God and having faith that he will succeed in his will for his entire creation being fulfilled!

whats his will? hhmm..

Joh 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all [men] unto me.

or,

1Ti 2:3 For this [is] good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.


or is your God, the one that men describe as:
only successfully saving around 5% and the other 95% ending up being eternally tormented in literal "fire and brimstone".

Is that your God?.

then if your concerned about the unborn or the young in age dying.
you better hope that the "age of accountability" is true and not a myth.
seeing as your God is running at about a 95% failure rate

My God loves all of his creation. "all" will be placed in his Son...as planned before the foundation of the world.

Me2

Amen AGAIN, Me2,

Jesus said to come as a little child. I guess those little children come in all sizes, ages and gender. Bless Him and praise His holy Name.

Note to Abiyah: I'm not insinuating anything, dear sister, I'm stating it boldly - I am a convinced universalist.

What a mighty, loving, merciful God we serve \o/

Loveyas,

GH

 

[GH]

Originally posted by Jacob:
Excuse me if I'm mistaken but are GH and Me2 insinuating that they believe in some kind of Universalism?

Jacob.

Oops, sorry - that post above should have been to Jacob, not Abiyah.

Bless you both in Christ our Lord.

GH

 

[KenH]

Originally posted by Jacob:
Excuse me if I'm mistaken but are GH and Me2 insinuating that they believe in some kind of Universalism?

Count me as one, too. I am a Christian Universalist.

A great book on the subject, besides the Bible of course, is The Inescapable Love of God by Thomas Talbott.

Praise be unto God for salvation through the finished work of Christ Jesus. \o/

 

[Jacob]

Originally posted by KenH:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Jacob:
Excuse me if I'm mistaken but are GH and Me2 insinuating that they believe in some kind of Universalism?

Count me as one, too. I am a Christian Universalist.

A great book on the subject, besides the Bible of course, is The Inescapable Love of God by Thomas Talbott.

Praise be unto God for salvation through the finished work of Christ Jesus. \o/ </font>[/QUOTE]Any websites that I can read about your brand of Universalism? I don't really want to get into a book but would like to read an article or two on it.

...Calvinists who are Universalists...WOW!! What's next?

Jacob.

 

[KenH]

Originally posted by Jacob:
but would like to read an article or two on it.

Here's an article by the author I mentioned -

www.willamette.edu/~ttalbott/prolegomenon.shtml

And here's another article by someone else - web page

 

[Frogman]

If this universalism is true, what need is there for the Lamb of God. I remember a former post by GH or Ken, one of you, which stated that unbelievers would be purified in fire and released into heaven.

Now, why did God humble himself and suffer the reproach of the Cross?

The Bible says for the joy that was set before him. What joy? That of redeeming his people. This would be unnecessary were they able to redeem themselves by any means.

Bro. Dallas

 

[Me2]

Frogman,

I think that you do not understand "universal reconciliation".

Is it possible that you have mixed up the use of "unitarian universalism" and christian "universal reconciliation".

"universal reconciliation" focuses on the sacrifice of Jesus and the taking of the sins of man as orthodox christianity does. some believers, such as the elect are "called" of Christ as he forms his body.

yet most orthodox christianity states that God eternally condemns the remainder of his creation, not considered being called "in christ" in their present "physical life".

you and I know that God doesnt call all men in this age.

So we would presume under the orthodox christianities guidelines that they would be condemned to be tormented in some "hell" and not to be further considered to become a part "in Christ" after their physical death.

that presents many inconsistencies in our views of God and his promises to mankind.

namely that God intentionally planned that some men to be eternally saved and some to be eternally tormented. thats silly.

it would emphatically prove God both not perfect and not sovereign.
that Jesus didnt die for all sin.
that Jesus is not lord, as death and hell would be more powerful.
that God is not Agape love (as proven in his interractions towards his creation).

if God doesnt treat all men alike it would make his word meaningless, as he would be lying to man.

he would be making promises to others, only to find out that weaker forces that are against him, can and do, defeat his plans and his promises that he makes to others.

the doctrine of eternal torment, or eternal condemnation defies the nature, will and plans of God towards his creation.

taking into view these verses Ive just posted I'll
ask a question. one in which any human being would expect a reasonable God to request..

one concerning equality...


Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins:
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.


"let us make man in our image".

Is the image of man "in christ" ?.

if one human being doesnt acheive the REALITY of Gods intended "image" of being "in Christ".

Does God fail, or misrepresent his word to himself or to any human being ?

Would God lie towards making ALL MEN into "this image" of being made "in christ". by failing to "save" all but one "undeserving" soul?

"universal reconciliation" states that God (if required) will spend an eternity receiving "all" into himself and losing none.
while orthodox christianity teaches that most of Gods creation will be eternally tormented and forever seperated from the God and his Love.

IMHO, every human beings moment of judgement is between them and God. and that they will be surprised to find that Jesus paid their debt..just like mine. that the verdict will be sins forgiven.

most people should check out "universal reconciliation". a simple doctrine whereas sinners are not eternally seperated from God.

Me2