Air Force Academy: chapel for Wiccans, Druids.etc

[NiteShift]

It is a service for military personnel who sacrifice enough with their lives to be concerned about a few taxes!!!!!

Cheers,

Jim

You are right Jim.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

You are right Jim.

Fair enough - if we wan't to go that route.

If that is the case than an druid soldier deserves the same privilege as a Christian soldier.

My major point here is that either every one or no one has the right to tax payer funded worship facilities.

 

[matt wade]

Good point. If you group has a chapel, others should be accommodated as well. My preference would be, however, that no one's taxes are used to pay for someone else's religious practice.

I completely agree with you. If persons in the military would like to go to church, let them go to an already established church or start their own. There's absolutely no reason for my hard earned money to pay for their religion.

 

[Baptist Believer]

I completely agree with you. If persons in the military would like to go to church, let them go to an already established church or start their own. There's absolutely no reason for my hard earned money to pay for their religion.

The reason a paid military chaplaincy program and state-funded buildings of religious worship for the military is supported by most church and state separationists (I am one) is because military personnel are often stationed in places where there are no churches available and/or it would be dangerous to have soldiers attend a meeting in a place that is outside the supervision/control of the military. Furthermore, military bases are highly organized/structured places where you are "on call" even when you are off duty. Unless you have a pass, you are not allow to come and go as you please.

I know a few people who have gone through the Air Force Academy and it is my understanding that it is just like a military base. Students/cadets are not allowed to leave the Academy without authorization. Not providing an opportunity for organized corporate religious worship without a pass could be considered a restriction upon the religious freedom of the students/cadets.

Therefore, I don't have a problem with it, but it does raise some thorny issues.

 

[Jim1999]

In Canada, we have no religious rights, First Amendment, or whatever that is in the USA.
We have Protestant and Roman Catholic chaplaincies. In war, a chapel serves any religious group. The padre will comfort any soul on the field. It is much the same on home bases.

The taxes spent are minimal compared to the religious and moral values. The offerings and tithes go back to the miltary to further finance other religious activities.

At home, and I think this applies to religious institutions in the USA, no property taxes are charged and there are tax deductions in other areas.

Should all these benefits be stopped as well? Let common sense prevail.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[billwald]

If God doesn't want druids worshipping at the USAF Academy, He can handle it.

Let the gods fight it out and may the best god win. Why do we think God needs out help or our money?

I propose that after a 30 day warning Jerusalem be turned into radioactive glass. If no human can rebuild on the site and if it is important to God then God can rebuild whatever sort of structure he pleases and we will know which religion has the correct slant on things.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

The centre of this story is simply the construction of an outdoor chapel. My guess is that if Christians wanted it for an Easter sunrise service and it was not booked they would be free to use it.

I can accept providing religious facilities for all, as long as no one is left out.

I prefer the state to keep her nose out our the affairs of the church.

 

[Salty]

I can accept providing religious facilities for all, as long as no one is left out.

I would basically agree, but I would word it:

I can accept providing religious facilities for all, as long as no one reasonably is left out.

 

[Don]

I think y'all are missing Roger's point. Once we say only Christian, then we have to determine which denomination or type; then we have to determine particular practices; and so on.

There's currently a small movement to introduce "chaplains" for atheists. Some atheist decided that the military chapels are predominantly leaning towards the religious folks, and he thinks there ought to be equal time for the non-religious. Seems pretty stupid to me; but once we set in motion one rule against a particular religion (or in this case, non-religion), then the question becomes where do we stop? And before you know it, we're just like a Muslim country (extreme step of logic, but the possibility, however faint we think it, is there).

 

[Magnetic Poles]

What is coming is a ban on any all religious activities that even remotely resemble an endorsement of religion? That's the only reasonable answer to Carpo's objection. What's fair for Christians should be fair other religious groups. And, perhaps the fairest thing would be to eliminate religious activities in government buildings all together. It's sad that our country has moved so far from her heritage when witches and homosexuals have enough clout in United States to demand equal access.

So you do not believe in equal protection under the law?

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

I would basically agree, but I would word it:

I can accept providing religious facilities for all, as long as no one reasonably is left out.

And the Air Force Academy has it sorted. Anyone who wants to worship indoors has the indoor chapel and those who want to worship outside have the new chapel.

I would prefer neither, but I am happy enough with this solution.

 

[rbell]

If God doesn't want druids worshipping at the USAF Academy, He can handle it.

Let the gods fight it out and may the best god win. Why do we think God needs out help or our money?

I propose that after a 30 day warning Jerusalem be turned into radioactive glass. If no human can rebuild on the site and if it is important to God then God can rebuild whatever sort of structure he pleases and we will know which religion has the correct slant on things.

And, as usual, two things become apparent:

1. Billwald posts yet another post that has little to do with the thread;
2. We're not really sure who billwald is rooting for in his silly little "battle of the gods." He's probably flipping a coin and going with "heads." For all we know, he's pulling for Shiva.

 

[billwald]

The post is about Druids using USAF property being somehow harmful to the people on BB and/or to God.

I would be disappointed if a fertility cult had the inside track into the next life.

 

[Salty]

The Spiritual side is an important aspect in the life of most soldiers - esp in combat - this is a need that the military takes very seriously. Many soldiers have been assisted by Chaplains in a time of need. Yes, at Stateside basis it is very easy to attend an off post church. However there are many bases where a civilian church is not practical. And obviously we would not expect a civilian minster to go into a combat zone. Therefore it is imperative that the military provide chaplains for members of their units. In addition, a GI wants to be assured his family is being taken care of. Attending an on-post chapel may be the best therapy for the wives whose husbands are in a combat zone. First you are surrounded by other wives who are in the same situation as you. Second, your chaplain has direct access to the commander.
There are many other reasons as well

Bottom line - it is in the best interest of the US Army (and all branches) to provide chaplains and chapels for service members and their families.

Read chapters 1-5 of AR 165-1

This will inform you what the chaplain is A) required to do. B) Authorized to do C) Recommended to do D) Prohibited from doing

 

[NiteShift]

Fair enough - if we wan't to go that route.

If that is the case than an druid soldier deserves the same privilege as a Christian soldier.

My major point here is that either every one or no one has the right to tax payer funded worship facilities.

Yes I understand the All-Or-Nothing argument. The outdoor chapel was built specifically to accomodate neo-pagans because, golly, the Christians have a chapel!

That is the sort of thinking that gave us Handicapped parking not only at hospitals and clinics, but at every single parking lot in the country. And the type of reasoning that mandated removal of all the Men At Work signs on the highway, even though 99% of the workers are...men. And there are other examples we all know about.

This is where the common sense should come in but seldom does any more.

 

[Salty]

...That is the sort of thinking that gave us Handicapped parking not only at hospitals and clinics, but at every single parking lot in the country. And the type of reasoning that mandated removal of all the Men At Work signs on the highway, even though 99% of the workers are...men. And there are other examples we all know about. ...

I think that the handicap parking is an excellent analogy. I am glad we have them. The problem is that it has went to extremes. In NY a parking lot is required to reserve 5% of all spaces for handicap. The problem here is that it does not take into account the needs of the store. For example, why couldn't a store have "temporary handicap parking" during peak hours. as you said lack of common sense.

But back to the chapel - I don't have a problem with the chapel providing an outdoor space for a certain group - but they must realize that it is not solely for them and more importantly, each group cannot demand a "reserved" place, rather there must be some compromising. Para 3-3 given in post #54 of my link address that situation.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

But back to the chapel - I don't have a problem with the chapel providing an outdoor space for a certain group - but they must realize that it is not solely for them and more importantly, each group cannot demand a "reserved" place, rather there must be some compromising.

This is vital - if the druids and others need the indoor chapel or the Christians need the outdoor chapel, say for an Easter sunrise service, there will need to be some compromising and accommodating.

 

[NiteShift]

...rather there must be some compromising.

there will need to be some compromising

Ok, compromise it is then

 

[Salty]

Ok, compromise it is then

and compromise is not necessarily a bad word

 

[NiteShift]

and compromise is not necessarily a bad word

Yes sergent.