Alcohol, Acts 29 and the SBC

Toes that need to be stepped on. I agree Jack.

 

Nothing like a little "guilt by (the) association", whether or not any association actually exists, right?

And FTR, I have not and do not claim to have read the articles.

"Round up the usual suspects!" - Captain Renault, "Casablanca"

Ed

 

Is anyone seeing a pattern here? The op is constantly posting negatives about anything concerning the sbc, even to the point of stretching the truth when necessary.
As I said in a previous thread of the op's, bitter and vindictive.

 

huh??? I don't get what you mean.

 

I don't intend to speak for gb, but I think what he is saying is that the biblical way to grow a church is to make disciples (that is, Christians who learn to do the things that Jesus commanded and have their characters transformed in the process). Disciples are made through the practice of spiritual disciplines (doing the same things Jesus did) in servanthood, prayer, fasting, service, study, solitude, etc. The disciplines are practiced not to become "holy," but to appropriate the life of Christ in our daily lives. The result of the consistent exercise of the disciplines is the transformation of the disciple into practical holiness and the fruit of the Spirit dominating their lifestyle. The natural result of the transformed life is evangelism as the lost world recognizes the work of God in the disciples life and the disciple is empowered to minister by the Spirit.

Seeker-sensitive churches (while not evil) are a poor substitute for the clear call to discipleship in the gospels. However, our current Western church (especially Evangelicals and Baptists) have ignored the clear call to discipleship of Jesus and have relied on revivalism and church programs to create a spiritual community. As a result, our churches have fragmented, our membership is largely unregenerate, and a version of the gospel is preached that reduces Jesus to Someone who was crucified for us, but doesn't have that much that is relevant to say to us today. For example, when was the last time you had training from your church on the spiritual disciplines, how to literally follow the commands of Jesus regarding loving your neighbor, or practical training on how to serve each other in humility and secrecy?

 

My friend, if you have a problem with Dr. Patterson, IMO, you need to take it up with him privately. I don't believe that a public forum is the place for this.

Call him. Ask him to explain.

BTW, no, I have not seen his home. No, I don't know what a starting professor at SWBTS makes.

 

I take it that you don't intend to take it up with him privately. Oh well...

Edited to add: Are you a Southern Baptist? I just want to know if the rocks you are throwing are coming from the outside or the inside.

 

That is quite an assumption to make about this church. Just by looking at this article you think they believe they'll be "successful" in the way you are talking about? Didn't Jesus demonstrate investing in the lives of people? Didn't he demonstrate becoming friends and reaching those that "church" people wouldn't? I think you're wrong by assuming that this church is program driven. If it were program driven they would stay hidden in their church building, putting pressure on everyone to bring friends. This is the opposite. Peparing their members to spend time in the culture, reaching those who would never come to cheesy church programs.

 

that would be the biblical way wouldn't it.......

 

The pastor and staff are like player-coaches. Yes, we equip, but we're also supposed to be out there ourselves.

 

How is this interfering with making disciples? The entire idea behind this church's motivation is to meet people that are unconnected with any church...by going to where they are. I've heard incredible examples of this specific church by friends who are a part of it. They are connecting with people who would likely not be confronted by a church. This isn't a "program". They aren't trying to pull it off as one. It actually began kind of gradually. They had some people who started going to this new pub....and they soon came up with the idea of having kind of a community discussion group once a month. Now they are intentionally going with the mission of giving Biblical points of view, offering advice from Scripture. People are hearing God's word because of this. My buddy told me that you'd be surprised how the conversations are. It is at a pub...but nobody is getting drunk or even drinking a lot during these discussions. People are listening to what the Bible says, and attending this church based on the people they meet from the pub and are becoming interested in learning more about Jesus. Isn't this what Jesus demonstrated?? This church is connecting with the community by not expecting them to come to our "holy" church buildings, but by going where they are! Now I'm repeating myself...I'll stop.

 

Isn't part of discipleship (maybe step #1) leading the lost to Christ? How can you disciple lost folks??

If you're fishin' for lost folks, sometimes you have to get out of the aquarium and get to where the lost folks are. I know that in the 50's, all you havd to do is open the church doors and the lost folks would flock in, but this ain't the 50's. If you want to reach the lost, you have to go where they are.

 

I agree it would be wrong to approach a Muslim in a setting where alcohol were present. But you have to see that this is no attempt at a glamorous program, or a huge party. It is as laid back as what you are talking about. It is some people from the church that hang out at a community discussion once a month at this pub. They are there getting to know other people in the community who do not know Christ, and they are telling them about the truths of Scripture. The results are clear....a lot of people are now coming to this church, and some have been saved, as a result of this. It is the parable of the Sower.