alcohol and the Christian

Ephesians 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
Being drunk with alcohol goes against the nature of God. God is a God of orderliness. God tells us always to keep our minds under submission. (2 Cor. 10:5; 2 Tim. 1:7; Tit. 2:6) From what I have observed it is hard for a person that has consumed alcohol to keep his mind under control.

Also, we as Christians are to maintain a higher standard of living than that of the world. If you look at the majority of Eph. 5 it talks about the exhortation to holy living. It is sad but the majority of Christians these days live no different from the world. If you were to ask the majority of unsaved people if Christians should drink they would say no. Why? Because we are to be different. We are new creatures.

In 1Tim 5:23 it is worthless arguing about because the Greek word oinos can mean anything from the vine. That is why you look at the rest of scripture.
Thank you for making me think!

[ January 27, 2003, 08:40 PM: Message edited by: drklaus ]

 

I Am Blessed 16 post a link claiming to show that wine doesn't always mean wine. A big part rested on the claim that "new wine" is really fresh-squeezed grape juice. Acts 2:13-15 clearly shows that new wine is intoxicating, and was considered such by both mockers and Apostles. Which overthows the position that new wine is anything other than wine.

drklaus;

About Matt. 11:19, look at the context. The Pharisees were lying about Him.

Was He lying about Himself when he said "the Son of Man came eating and drinking"? He said He came eating and drinking, and I believe exactly that. That the hypocrits attacked Him for it doesn't mean He didn't do it. Did eating make Him a glutton? Of course not; everyone eats, and not everyone is a glutton, and Christ is without sin. Well, it works the same way with drinking.

 

Ephesians 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

This verse does not forbid alcohol. It forbids drunkenness.

 

drklaus said:

Good point, but how can it condem and commend the same thing?

It doesn't. Context is key.

 

Just thought I'd throw in my two cents and an experience last night. I say its ok to drink wine but never ever get drunk and keep in mind your body is a temple. Do nothing to put it in a state of neglect or unhealth. I've found that many Christians have a paranoid almost supersticious (sp?) fear of alcohol even in tiny portions.

Last night I went out to dinner at an Italian restaurant with two Christian friends and we each had a glass of wine. None of us got drunk, but here's what did happen - I drank my wine slow because I know my low tolerance to it. 75% of our conversation last night was taken up by us sharing and reciting scripture with each other. We were all fairly relaxed and had a joyous evening fellowshipping with each other.

 

Could you not have done the same thing without the wine?

Sue

 

Very good, ABG, you used wine in a biblically allowble fashion. I see no problem with your example at all. Thanks.

 

The Bible does not forbid the use of alcohol. It does offer strong warnings against it. With all the mixed signals that a Christian partaking of alcohol gives others (do not cause a brother to stumble), the better way, the higher calling is abstinance.

I think if the Apostle Paul could join these Christian/alcohol debates, he would say something similar to his teaching about remaining single (sexual abstinance). If you can abstain, it is the higher calling. Single people can give undivided devotion to God. Married people take on more family obligations. With alcohol, I would say the same thing: if you can abstain; if it's not a problem at all for you to abstain, do it! It makes a much more solid witness to the lost as well as to other believers! But I would never look down upon (judge) moderate use by a believer.

 

The difference between sex and wine (there's a joke in there somewhere) is that biblically, sexual activity outside of marriage is strictly forbidden. Wine, on the other hand, as you said, is not forbidden, but warned against. Hence, you can consume it so long as it does not cause someone to stumble. Sex on the other hand, is forbidden outside of marriage completely, not just warned against.

Now within marriage, sex and wine... well, I just won't go there.

 

I Am Blessed 16 said:

Could you not have done the same thing without the wine?

That wouldn't be the same thing.

 

That has nothing to do with Paul's teaching. To sum up in the vernacular Paul's teaching, if you can't do without sex, then marry. If you can, or if you want to and feel you can deny yourself for a higher calling, then remain single. It had nothing to do with adultry. So, I think my analogy stands as a valid one!

 

What IF I am a recovering alcoholic reading these posts?

I've been saved and I love God's Word.

But I still "like" the taste and smell of the booze.

What direction should I take from reading these posts?

Rufus

 

If you're a recovering alcoholic, then you need to refrain from alcoholic beverages.

If you're recovering from severe caffiene addition, you need to refrain from caffienated beverages.

But please don't tell the rest of us who have consumed alcohol and caffiene responsibly that we must refrain as well.

 

By their fruit you shall know them. Apparently here, it's okay to smoke marijuana as long as you don't inhale; it's okay to drink wine as long as you don't get drunk; or, it's okay to set the barn on fire as long as you don't let it burn all the way down. I exagerate to make a point.

Too many of you apparently conclude "anything" is okay if the Bible doesn't explicitly say it's wrong. Would you like for some toughie to walk up to you every day and hit you with his fist in your face? Why not? He probably knows you're supposed to turn the other cheek and what he just did to you is not explicitly forbidden in the Bible.

Am I the only one who is sickened with some of this rationale offered by Christians for acting like the devil? Don't bother to answer that here (unless you'd like to amuse each other with your wit) as I won't even be around to read it.

Would that the apostle Paul were alive today to write to your churches the same as He did to the Corinthians. At your pleasure, read 2 Corinthians 6 please. You are supposed to be called out from among them.

The next time you're having a cool one with friends in a public place (regardless of the topic of your conversation) just tell yourself - - "I'm sitting here acting like the world and I'm losing my testimony." The lost at the next table who don't limit their intake will think you're just as lost as they are. You look just like them. They may not be right but that will be their "perception" and a person's perception is the truth to them.

Were I a lost person and you witnessed to me with alcohol on your breath, and asked me to hold your drink and your pipe, cigar, or snuff tin while you searched for that gospel tract in your pocket, I'd look at you like the poor mis-guided sinner you are and tell you to keep it.

Regardless of how okay you think drinking is, convince yourself while doing so that you appear to be truly glorifying God.

I love you all but I hate what I think is sin.

Yep, I'm taking my bat and ball and going home, but before I did, I had to let you know I thought you're wrong. Have a good life and don't exceed your limit ... or the law's.... or God's.

 

JIMNSC said:

Apparently here, it's okay to smoke marijuana as long as you don't inhale; it's okay to drink wine as long as you don't get drunk; or, it's okay to set the barn on fire as long as you don't let it burn all the way down. I exagerate to make a point.

Your analogies (marijuana and arson) are illegitimate.

Why do you assume that since some of us believe the Bible permits the drinking of wine, that we therefore believe we have license to do whatever we feel like?

Would you likewise assume that if someone says it is permissible to shoot game animals for food, he also therefore believes it is legitimate to hunt humans for sport? Or that since it is permissible to drive, it is therefore permissible to drive recklessly?

Personally, I suspect that the militant teetotallers must resort to extreme rhetoric of this sort because they cannot deal with the issue at hand alone on a Biblical basis.

Am I the only one who is sickened with some of this rationale offered by Christians for acting like the devil?

Drinking wine is not "acting like the devil."

I love you all but I hate what I think is sin.

I hate what I know is sin, not what I wish was sin.

 

Regardless of how okay you think drinking is, convince yourself while doing so that you appear to be truly glorifying God.

Like wine consumed during a Sabbath meal? Biblically, this is VERY glorifying to God. COme to think of it, Jesus Himself would have done this on every Sabbath.

 

I'm beginning to wonder why I should bother even trying to justify lawful behaviour to people who can't be bothered to pay attention.

 

I'm not going to bother, Ransom. I'm just going to go down the pub for a pint. I'd invite you guys to come along, if you didn't live so far away. Or if I knew who you were from Adam.

 

Somebody's Christian liberty JUST caused a brother to stumble (Rom. 14).

No matter! Offend a brother! Offend Christ!

Rufus

 

Yes, those 'Christians' who eat donughts in front of those who have a problem with gluttony should be ashamed. Donughts are sinful.