Alcohol in Moderation?

Oh, you have to eat those in moderation, too!

 

Anyone who knows anything about church and/or general history knows the absurdity of this debate. This was not an issue until the Prohibition era arose.

Why would Jesus be accused of being a winebibber and glutton if he did not partake in some form of wine? If he were not drinking wine, he could not be accused of being a winebibber. If you use the argument that he was simply being falsely accused and was not drinking at all, then we also have to say he never ate.

Those who know the original language and have studied Jewish culture in that day know that to say "wine" means "grape juice" is the same as saying "beer" means "soda pop".

Regardless of one's choice to partake or not partake in alcoholic beverages, it is amazing how far some will go to cause Jesus to line up with their own personal standards.

 

Being the Prince of Peace and the King of kings, and the fact that it was forbidden for kings to drink fermented beverages, Jesus would not have consumed wine in any quantity.

If he agreed that wine was ok, even in moderation, he would have accepted the wine vinegar on the cross.

 

Thank you for not answering the question.

 

According to the poll most of the people on this board believe a Christian can drink alcoholic beverages......that's a real suprise! I believe Matt.7:14 sheds some light on this. Fermentation and leaven in the Word of God are pictures of ...sin. To say that God condones drinking and as some on here has stated, the Lord Jesus Himself is a drinker....is blaspheme.

 

Fermentation and leaven, as you say, are pictures of sin, they are not sin themselves. They are used as an analogy because they spread. Just like leaven is used as an analogy of the spreading of God's kingdom in Matt 13:33 and Luke 13:20-21.

 

natthers needs to spend less time "in front of his computer" and more time IN the Word of God!

 

Since the topic of fermentation and leaven has come up--here are some definitions:

leaven

LEAVEN , n. lev'n. L. levo, Eng. to lift.

1. A mass of sour dough, which, mixed with a larger quantity of dough or paste, produces fermentation in it and renders it light. During the seven days of the passover, no leaven was permitted to be in the houses of the Jews. Ex. 12.

2. Any thing which makes a general change in the mass. It generally means something which corrupts or depraves that with which it is mixed.

Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

Matt. 16.

LEAVEN, v.t. lev'n.

1. To excite fermentation in; to raise and make light, as dough or paste.

A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. 1Cor. 5.

2. to taint; to imbue.
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fermentation

FERMENTA'TION, n. L. fermentatio. The sensible internal motion of the constituent particles of animal and vegetable substances, occasioned by a certain degree of heat and moisture, and accompanied by an extrication of gas and heat. Fermentation is followed by a change of properties in the substances fermented, arising from new combinations of their principles. It may be defined, in its most general sense, any spontaneous change which takes place in animal or vegetable substances, after life has ceased. It is of three kinds, vinous, acetous, and putrefactive. The term is also applied to other processes, as the panary fermentation, or the raising of bread; but it is limited, by some authors, to the vinous and acetous fermentations, which terminate in the production of alcohol or vinegar. Fermentation differs from effervescence. The former is confined to animal and vegetable substances; the latter is applicable to mineral substances. The former is spontaneous; the latter produced by the mixture of bodies.
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Since some might not know what "to imbue" means--here is the definition:

imbue

IMBUE,v.t. imbu'. L. imbuo; in and the root of Eng. buck, to buck cloth, that is, to dip, drench or steep in water.

1. To tinge deeply; to dye; as, to imbue cloth.

2. To tincture deeply; to cause to imbibe; as, to imbue the minds of youth with good principles.

Webster's 1828 Dictionary

 

Most of my Bible collection and study tools are on the computer. But thanks for the thinly veiled barb.

 

This is from another thread , that isn't talking directly about alcohol, and instead of continuing to derail that thread, I am posting the reply and my response here:

That is not edifying the body. That is satisfying the flesh.

Edifying is building up. Alcohol does not build up the body, but rather tears it down. </font>[/QUOTE]Alcohol in moderation, (I know you hate that word unless you're the one using it) does build up the body. If not, why would a medical doctor at times prescribe it?

Being DRUNK breaks down the body, but notice I didn't say anything about getting drunk because I do believe getting DRUNK is a sin, however having a drink is not.

Let me ask you a question... Do you drink Soda? How about Coffee or Tea?


Jamie

 

Pro 20:1 Coffee is a mocker, Pepsi is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.
Another attempt to twist Scripture to condone an ungodly lifestyle.

 

Shiloh, nobody except you twisted that scripture. Jamie was asking the question in the context of edification. standingfirminChrist was opposed to wine because in his opinion it does not "edify" - but does soda, coffee or tea "edify"?

 

Maybe the medical doctor isn't a Christian.

 

Wow! (in the name of Jesus??)

and it would have a bit more punch if you spelled the name right. (well not really any punch at all, but still . . .)

 

Maybe the medical doctor isn't a Christian. </font>[/QUOTE]He was. He did. And because of that my body was able to transport the iron I needed so desperately after taking some drugs that had saved my life. 2-3 ounces a day, EVERY day, for almost a month.

If it makes any who hate wine feel better, it was years before I could even taste the stuff again, because when it is medicine it isn't good anymore!

Now, however, because it is still good for me, I try to make sure I have 2-4 ounces at least a couple times a month. It actually should be more often than that, but I forget. Some wino I am!

After having seen the effect different chemical drugs have on me, I am quite sure that wine is ever so much safer and the results are never unknown.


And, once in awhile, I even have a bit of it by choice with a good dinner. It does help the digestion, you know....

Wine is a gift from God. Like anything He gives us, it is not to be abused but to be used wisely.

edit: before I forget, it was also prescribed for me one other time. Before Scott was born, the little stinker had me in 'false labor' for two SOLID weeks before he showed up. Every three minutes. Sometimes fierce enough so I couldn't sleep but never fierce enough to get something the size of a basketball out. So I would call medical advice. The conversation usually went like this:

"Ummm, are you a Mormon?"

"No. Why do you ask?"

"Well, just because they don't like this. But to stop false labor, have a few ounces of wine and a hot shower. If it is false labor, it will stop it. If it is the real thing, it will help it along."

It was excellent advice and it is how I got any sleep at all for the two weeks before October 14! Scott is 32 now. Was he damaged by this?

Well, he graduated from high school in 1991 with $10,000 in scholarships, and when he graduated from college four different companies were bidding for him. He is a head engineer now in a computer firm who has offered to pay for any further education he might like. He is a strong Christian, a leader in his church, and the best son any mother could ever have. He was easy from the minute he was born, slept through the night at two weeks old and rebelled for a total of about 20 minutes in high school...

I apologize, Shiloh and company, that there were no terrible, horrible effects!

 

So, would drinking water, milk or fresh squeezed grape juice be a mocker.

 

Have you ever seen the results of drinking too much grape juice?

My aunt had bone problems because she drank too much milk her entire life.

 

Yes. Grape juice is very high in sugar. Sugar reactions, whether hypo or hyper can occur.

 

I drank way too much once when I was a kid, and I was throwing up purple for two days. I didn't drink any grape juice for about a year after that. I think it may have been a sugar reaction partially, and just a reaction to the quantity fruit partially.