Alcohol

[annsni]

Stick, Stick and gut that pig....



WHAT!!! SINCE WHEN....WHAT DEVILLRY IS THIS???? SINCE WHEN DO ALCOHOL AND THE USE OF FIREARMS NOT GEL PERFECTLY??? :laugh:

Welcome to BB!

EVERY time I see your name, I need to sing the song.

Heir of salvation, purchase of God, born of His spirit, washed in His blood......


Oh and alcohol and firearms go PERFECTLY together!!! Add in some chainsaws and you have a perfect get-together!

 

[Arbo]

EVERY time I see your name, I need to sing the song.

Heir of salvation, purchase of God, born of His spirit, washed in His blood......


Oh and alcohol and firearms go PERFECTLY together!!! Add in some chainsaws and you have a perfect get-together!

BYOA- Bring Your Own Ammo!:laugh:

 

[HeirofSalvation]

EVERY time I see your name, I need to sing the song.
Heir of salvation, purchase of God, born of His spirit, washed in His blood......

:wavey:Beautiful song....I love it. The name, is part of my own walk....I am adopted, I was given up by my Biological family, and adopted by an attorney and his wife. An attorney, who knew full well, that in the State he adopted me, he was "by law" never allowed to dis-inherit an adopted child, a naturally-born one, but never an adopted one. It makes me think of Christ, who, "thought it not robbery...." and gave up, as the only "begotten" Son, his rights, that he might "inherit" us, and we are thus "co-heirs" with him....in Salvation... "Joint-heirs with Jesus, as we travel this sod...."
Like the other great Hymn..."God our Father, Christ our Brother, all who live in love are thine.." Jesus, the begotten Son, sacrificed a part of what was rightfully his, so that he might "inherit" us...and NNE....may dis-inherit, an adopted Son...Always thought it would preach..:jesus::godisgood:

 

[saturneptune]

Did Calvin drink of his own free will? Also, the song "Ninty Nine Bottles of Beer on the Wall" would certainly be long enough to get the whole congregation to walk the aisle at invitation time.

 

[Monster]

I understand that it is not meant as insult, and none is taken.....but (for my part) I literally believe it to be true...I do not think this is hyperbole. Allow me to phrase what I mean differently: I have spent much time on this, allow me to pose this as a deductive argument..... I am not assuming that you will accept it, but for the sake of "iron-sharpening". Here is the idea:

1.) There are those who are tempted to engage in sin merely for the thrill of rebellion.
2.) Many might not have otherwise thought of alcohol abuse, per se, except for the societally induced "taboo".
3.) The thrill they seek (we are thinking dumb teen-agers) is the thrill of rebellion and the thrill of dis-obedience towards a societal norm which would otherwise not exist.
4.) Because of this, alcohol is far more likely to be abused or utilized solely for the purpose of abuse than it might be otherwise.
5.) Thus, the users of alcohol are far more likely to be those who have a Spiritual Condition, which pre-disposes them towards abuse than would otherwise obtain.
6.) Thus, "tee-totalling" societies, will suffer far more the consequences of alcoholism and alcohol abuse, because of the subjects who are using it and their purposes for it, than societies with a mature and responsible view of it.

Therefore: the tee-totaller attitude (quite frankly) is more deadly, or at least "problematic" than the right, Biblical, and more responsible one.

You're right, I do but that's okay too. I understand you're argument, it's very well thought out and sensible (I'm lacking the words right now to disagree, explain my perspective and most importantly, not come off as condescending).

I can say this though, it's a pleasure to disagree with you. I wish all like conversations were as pleasant.

Anecdotal arguments like mine are hard to make or accept, that doesn't rob them of their power though. Lives changed and impacted matter. I believe that's what Christ was about. Consider how he summed up the entire law, think about that next time you imbibe, particularly if you don't know the circumstances of those around you. It's fine I guess, to expect or demand self-control from others but I believe it's a higher "thing" to deny yourself, pick up that weighty beam and carry it until...

 

[Monster]

HeirofSalvation responded to your post above and I fully agree with everything he said. I however, as his wife, would like to address something that he did not.



I am not, nor are our 4 daughters, being "destroyed" by my husband's use of alcohol. I myself partake of an alcoholic beverage every now and then, but a six pack of Mike's Hard Lemonade will last me a good 2 months, if not more. On the other hand, I DO have a hard time controlling myself when it comes to soda. To the point that I don't keep it in the house. When I do purchase soda, it is never in large quantities. If I use your logic, the partaking of soda by ALL is sin (or at least ill-advised) because of my inability to exhibit self-control.

So then, I'd rather drink water and offer you unsweetened tea (sorry southerners) rather than tempt you in your weakness. Of course, this is partially stated with tongue planted in cheek, but the point is still there.

I'm just going to c-n-p this from my reply to your hubby. You mentioned self control, thus;

"Anecdotal arguments like mine are hard to make or accept, that doesn't rob them of their power though. Lives changed and impacted matter. I believe that's what Christ was about. Consider how he summed up the entire law, think about that next time you imbibe, particularly if you don't know the circumstances of those around you. It's fine I guess, to expect or demand self-control from others but I believe it's a higher "thing" to deny yourself, pick up that weighty beam and carry it until..."

 

[OldRegular]

If you go fishing and have beer, always take two baptists. If you take only one, he will drink all your beer, if you take two, neither one of them will drink.

Could be!:laugh::thumbs:

 

[saturneptune]

Could be!:laugh::thumbs:

Jews do not recognize Jesus
Protestants do not recognize the Pope
Baptists do not recognize each other in a liquor store

 

[Arbo]

Jews do not recognize Jesus
Protestants do not recognize the Pope
Baptists do not recognize each other in a liquor store

Ha! That's the funniest thing I've read today! :laugh:

 

[annsni]

:wavey:Beautiful song....I love it. The name, is part of my own walk....I am adopted, I was given up by my Biological family, and adopted by an attorney and his wife. An attorney, who knew full well, that in the State he adopted me, he was "by law" never allowed to dis-inherit an adopted child, a naturally-born one, but never an adopted one. It makes me think of Christ, who, "thought it not robbery...." and gave up, as the only "begotten" Son, his rights, that he might "inherit" us, and we are thus "co-heirs" with him....in Salvation... "Joint-heirs with Jesus, as we travel this sod...."
Like the other great Hymn..."God our Father, Christ our Brother, all who live in love are thine.." Jesus, the begotten Son, sacrificed a part of what was rightfully his, so that he might "inherit" us...and NNE....may dis-inherit, an adopted Son...Always thought it would preach..:jesus::godisgood:

Hey! I was adopted as well!!

 

[Yeshua1]

Ha! That's the funniest thing I've read today! :laugh:

We also don't recognize each other while in line at the Movies!

 

[Pleasant_Bill]

I will absolutely relate even the slightest casual drinking to drunkenness and abuse. They are inextricably tied together, only a fool denies that the use of alcohol does not lead to both. Not always no doubt but without a doubt in every case alcohol is the root; you cannot have drunkenness without drinking.

Yes.....you cannot get drunk unless you drink. You also cannot drown unless you swim therefore swimming leads to drowning. You also cannot be obese unless you eat therefore eating leads to obeseity.

A more extreme example would be in order to worship the Devil you must believe in God therefore God leads to Satan worshipping.

I have abstained for almost 10 years (since I was saved) but not because I believed consuming alcohol was wrong and I didn't have a problem putting it down. I stopped consuming to show my kids (and I let them know why) that it's possible to socialize and relax without the use of alcohol. During their teen years there wasn't going to be any alcohol in my house for them to experiment with either.

Now that they're grown, I will occassionally have a good beer. Not with the purpose of getting a buzz or getting drunk but to enjoy that 1 drink.

All things in moderation............

 

[friendofyours]

If you go fishing and have beer, always take two baptists. If you take only one, he will drink all your beer, if you take two, neither one of them will drink.

Cute....we never drink when we fish, but we always have wine at the dinner table, and sometimes I kick back a little bit of port on those evenings which I find myself restless, but then again, I am not Baptist. :laugh:

 

[Baptist Believer]

Deuteronomy 14:22-27 (NASB)

22 “You shall surely tithe all the produce from what you sow, which comes out of the field every year. 23 You shall eat in the presence of the Lord your God, at the place where He chooses to establish His name, the tithe of your grain, your new wine, your oil, and the firstborn of your herd and your flock, so that you may learn to fear the Lord your God always. 24 If the distance is so great for you that you are not able to bring the tithe, since the place where the Lord your God chooses to set His name is too far away from you when the Lord your God blesses you, 25 then you shall exchange it for money, and bind the money in your hand and go to the place which the Lord your God chooses. 26 You may spend the money for whatever your heart desires: for oxen, or sheep, or wine, or strong drink, or whatever your heart desires; and there you shall eat in the presence of the Lord your God and rejoice, you and your household. 27 Also you shall not neglect the Levite who is in your town, for he has no portion or inheritance among you."

And for our KJVO friends:

22 Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.
23 And thou shalt eat before the Lord thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the Lord thy God always.
24 And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the Lord thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the Lord thy God hath blessed thee:
25 Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the Lord thy God shall choose:
26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the Lord thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,
27 And the Levite that is within thy gates; thou shalt not forsake him; for he hath no part nor inheritance with thee.

 

[Pleasant_Bill]

I will absolutely relate even the slightest casual drinking to drunkenness and abuse. They are inextricably tied together, only a fool denies that the use of alcohol does not lead to both.

One other note on that and I hope I don't offend you. If it's been mentioned here I missed it but are you a recovering alcoholic and if so, were you abusive? I mean no offense but some of the most vehement people I've encountered think their past experiences with substance abuse is what everyone goes through. Not everyone has a problem limiting themselves to a drink or two but some do.

The substance isn't causing the sin............it's the sinner. Some people have addictive personalities and they will most likely struggle with being addicted to anything they pick up; including religion. Addicted to Christ..........great. Addicted to being legalistic and thinking that your opinions are biblical..........not so great.

When I went through small group training for our church, the pastor stated that leaders should not be consuming alcohol in front of other group members as you don't want to be a stumbling block for someone else. I thought that was a very good way to put it.

 

[annsni]

One other note on that and I hope I don't offend you. If it's been mentioned here I missed it but are you a recovering alcoholic and if so, were you abusive? I mean no offense but some of the most vehement people I've encountered think their past experiences with substance abuse is what everyone goes through. Not everyone has a problem limiting themselves to a drink or two but some do.

The substance isn't causing the sin............it's the sinner. Some people have addictive personalities and they will most likely struggle with being addicted to anything they pick up; including religion. Addicted to Christ..........great. Addicted to being legalistic and thinking that your opinions are biblical..........not so great.

When I went through small group training for our church, the pastor stated that leaders should not be consuming alcohol in front of other group members as you don't want to be a stumbling block for someone else. I thought that was a very good way to put it.

I totally agree. I consumed alcohol for many years. I am only not partaking because of working with college students - and later because it was a requirement of employment with our church. However, there is nothing wrong with having a glass of wine or a beer - or other drink and it will NOT absolutely be tied to abuse. I never abused alcohol. I didn't even like the very beginning of a buzz so I never went there. One glass of something was all I would have and I'd never get those giant drinks unless I shared it with at least one other person. For someone to say that one drink will lead to abuse is ignorant.

 

[Monster]

Yes.....you cannot get drunk unless you drink. You also cannot drown unless you swim therefore swimming leads to drowning. You also cannot be obese unless you eat therefore eating leads to obeseity.

A more extreme example would be in order to worship the Devil you must believe in God therefore God leads to Satan worshipping.

I have abstained for almost 10 years (since I was saved) but not because I believed consuming alcohol was wrong and I didn't have a problem putting it down. I stopped consuming to show my kids (and I let them know why) that it's possible to socialize and relax without the use of alcohol. During their teen years there wasn't going to be any alcohol in my house for them to experiment with either.

Now that they're grown, I will occassionally have a good beer. Not with the purpose of getting a buzz or getting drunk but to enjoy that 1 drink.

All things in moderation............

- I wouldn't argue with any of the basic premises except that water, food and worshiping God are all necessary and done rightly are profitable. Alcohol isn't.

- If abstinence was a good example for one stage in a life, might it not be for all stages? And again, I've not stated that it's a sin or flat out wrong to imbibe, but will hold the line on whether it's necessary or profitable. I know there are areas in my life where it's very inconvenient to ask that, don't we all just hate dying to ourselves. That's what living in a body is all about.

- All things in moderation? I think we (not you specifically) stretch this rubber ruler to fit our desired units of measure. I understand what you're saying but there's so much wiggle room in that simple statement. IE; how much porn, methamphetamine, lying, etc, is okay in moderation? I'll grant you that I'm intentionally using extreme examples but all the same, it makes the point.

 

[Monster]

One other note on that and I hope I don't offend you. If it's been mentioned here I missed it but are you a recovering alcoholic and if so, were you abusive? I mean no offense but some of the most vehement people I've encountered think their past experiences with substance abuse is what everyone goes through. Not everyone has a problem limiting themselves to a drink or two but some do.

The substance isn't causing the sin............it's the sinner. Some people have addictive personalities and they will most likely struggle with being addicted to anything they pick up; including religion. Addicted to Christ..........great. Addicted to being legalistic and thinking that your opinions are biblical..........not so great.

When I went through small group training for our church, the pastor stated that leaders should not be consuming alcohol in front of other group members as you don't want to be a stumbling block for someone else. I thought that was a very good way to put it.

- Nah, no offense at all. You've show a very gentle sprint with your responses, thanks for that. Others however don't seem to WANT to show the same grace you do. Sacred cows have very tough hides.

- I wasn't an abusive drunk. I was typically Mr. Mellow and did most of my drinking solo. When younger I loved a good bar-room-brawl, it was more of a spectator sport though, broken bones, cuts and contusions aren't all that great.

- As for the sin and legalism, I was, am and will be a consummate sinner. I find that I'm very good at it but more importantly, that Romans 7 14-25 & Romans 8 1-25 with and emphasis on 8 vs.1, have become very large in my life as a result. That said, I will never accept that questioning the reasons, motivations or results of someones choices and actions equates legalism (I don't read your comments as accusation, other's yes, not yours). That's all I've done with my input in this thread. It's been met with anger, insult and rudeness.

- Your Pastor sounds like my kind of leader. That's dying to self, not legalism.

 

[Monster]

I totally agree. I consumed alcohol for many years. I am only not partaking because of working with college students - and later because it was a requirement of employment with our church. However, there is nothing wrong with having a glass of wine or a beer - or other drink and it will NOT absolutely be tied to abuse. I never abused alcohol. I didn't even like the very beginning of a buzz so I never went there. One glass of something was all I would have and I'd never get those giant drinks unless I shared it with at least one other person. For someone to say that one drink will lead to abuse is ignorant.

That's all good then!

It's always one drink that leads to abuse of drink. You can't know which, when or who (maybe even you) might take it that opens that door. When someone/anyone drinks in front of others, they're making all manor of assumptions. Is that a necessary risk? Are we not responsible to act in ways that strengthen, support or edify others?

Your others statements (un-highlighted) sound more like prideful assurance than reality. You simply do not know how your ever changing physiology will be affected by intoxicants, you can only assume constancy. I do hope (and pray) that you never cross that rubicon where casual evolves into catastrophic.

 

[annsni]

Your others statements (un-highlighted) sound more like prideful assurance than reality. You simply do not know how your ever changing physiology will be affected by intoxicants, you can only assume constancy. I do hope (and pray) that you never cross that rubicon where casual evolves into catastrophic.

Well, next year will be 30 years since I was legal to drink alcohol and I have not gotten drunk or have I abused alcohol in all those years. So I think I'm doing OK.