Thomas Helwys
New Member
Do most Baptists believe it is wrong to have an occasional wine or beer?
Could someone be a Baptist pastor and do this?
Could someone be a Baptist pastor and do this?
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Alcohol
- Thread starter Thomas Helwys
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Most Baptists do not believe it is wrong. However, very few of them will drink in the presence of other Baptists.
That would be problematic. Titus 1:7.
Well, I've got good news and bad news for you:
The good news, you're about to find out how varied this issue is among Baptists.
The bad news, you're about to find out how varied this issue is among Baptists.
Sooo...I'm going to give the over under for this thread page count at 25 by next Monday. Any takers?
The good news, you're about to find out how varied this issue is among Baptists.
The bad news, you're about to find out how varied this issue is among Baptists.
Sooo...I'm going to give the over under for this thread page count at 25 by next Monday. Any takers?
quantumfaith
Active Member
:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
Thomas Helwys
New Member
:laugh: :laugh:
Thomas Helwys
New Member
That verse says, "not given to drunkenness" (NIV). I said an occasional wine or beer.
Thomas Helwys
New Member
I'll have to study how to do that. Or could you or someone else tell me, maybe?
Certainly.
Not all baptists are stuck in that brief, fleeting period of history (1830's-1960's in America and England) when some ill-informed Christians thought it was a sin to drink alcohol responsibly.
Many baptists have grown up, become better informed, realized that most Christians throughout Christian history, including the founders of this nation, drank with a clear conscience before God.
Many baptists recognize teetotalism as a new invention and a passing fad largely confined to English speaking Christianity.
Many baptists know that all the teetotaler has from the Bible is about three passages from Proverbs that he misuses- and these baptists know that you don't build doctrine from passages in The Proverbs by themselves.
Unfortunately, there are still way too many under educated pastors who preach teetotalism nonsense- but thankfully not all baptists are that uneducated (biblically and historically).
Yeah, here's the Southern Baptists' North American Mission Board standard for church planters:
http://www.namb.net
Furthermore:
http://www.namb.net
Furthermore:
Bronconagurski
New Member
I do not think the bible teaches teetotalism. It does forbid drunkenness. Those aren't the only considerations imo. There is the problem of the weaker brother, but I won't go there as it might hijack the thread. I would say that as a Pastor, I would probably abstain in public, and if I did partake, it would be privately with those of like mind. JMHO
Thomas Helwys
New Member
I wonder if that would disqualify any who might have partaken of the Lord's Supper where real wine was used instead of grape juice.
salzer mtn
Well-Known Member
The bible does say, drink a little wine for thy stomach sake and often infirmities but i don't think good stomach medicine was on the market at that time either. I was raised up around a bunch of drunks and i don't know of one that could occasionally have a beer without getting drunk. What is missing in a christians life that he occasionally has to have a nip or two? I have seen drinking husbands beat their wives and neglect their children. This habit of drinking can and will become habit forming as years go by and sooner or later when something goes wrong in your life you will hit the bottle. It seems with a lot of proffessing christians their whole goal of life is to read the bible to see what all they can get away with.
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Is alcohol allowed for the Christian? Yes. In moderation with a proper motivation.
Should a Christian partake? Sure - if he has prayed about it, he is not prone to alcoholism, it is legal for him to do so and he is careful about his liberty.
In my case, I do not drink but I will absolutely cook with alcohol (and despite the common wisdom, the alcohol is not "cooked off" and instead up to 85% of the alcohol is left after adding it to a dish). So because of that, I have vodka (for Penne a la vodka), wine (red and white for many dishes), Guiness (for my chili and stew) and marsala wine as well. I also have a small airplane bottle of whiskey for hot toddies if I get desperate. I've had one before and let me tell you, I'd have to be dying to have it but it DID help.
We deal with a number of people at our church who are former alcoholics and we used to work with the college ministry and so have decided to not drink. I do miss it because some of it I really loved but for this time in our lives, we are giving up our liberty for ministry.
Should a Christian partake? Sure - if he has prayed about it, he is not prone to alcoholism, it is legal for him to do so and he is careful about his liberty.
In my case, I do not drink but I will absolutely cook with alcohol (and despite the common wisdom, the alcohol is not "cooked off" and instead up to 85% of the alcohol is left after adding it to a dish). So because of that, I have vodka (for Penne a la vodka), wine (red and white for many dishes), Guiness (for my chili and stew) and marsala wine as well. I also have a small airplane bottle of whiskey for hot toddies if I get desperate. I've had one before and let me tell you, I'd have to be dying to have it but it DID help.
We deal with a number of people at our church who are former alcoholics and we used to work with the college ministry and so have decided to not drink. I do miss it because some of it I really loved but for this time in our lives, we are giving up our liberty for ministry.
What would be missing in a Christian's life if they have to have two pieces of pie? It's just because it's yummy. If it's in moderation, it's not an issue.
This is the problem with teetotalers. I am not saying you are one but that you at least share a common problem that teetotalers have.
You are very poorly informed.
MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of people around the world drink MOST of their lives and hold jobs, take good care of their families and are simply NOT alcoholics.
HUNDREDS upon HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of Christians throughout history have drank alcohol responsibly.
God himself told folks to enjoy if they want to- not just to use it for medicine.
You see, I used to be a teetotaler. But my problem was that I was stupid. I was ill-informed. I was dumb and did not know that I was dumb. I did not have the good sense to look beyond my little isolated world whereby I judged the whole world. I did not KNOW church history. I did not KNOW that no good handler of the Scripture would EVER use Proverbs alone to establish a doctrine.
Now not EVERYBODY who abstains from alcohol is as stupid as I was. There are people, like John MacArthur, who are not teetotalers but abstentionists, who are not completely ignorant on this issue.
But most teetotalers who believe that Christians should never drink alcohol for enjoyment are, in my opinion, VERY uneducated concerning the Bible, the current Christian world outside of small, backwoods American towns and the history of Christianity worldwide.
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Until prohibition, many evangelical theologians and Christians consumed alcohol as a beverage. In many countries, Christians drink alcohol.
I object to alcohol, as a beverage, because, as a pastor, I was first on the scene to rescue a woman from a drunk's abuse. Often, three weeks later, the woman ends up dead because there was no where to turn.
To-day, I just don't like the taste. I much prefer my tea and coffee.
Cheers,
Jim
I object to alcohol, as a beverage, because, as a pastor, I was first on the scene to rescue a woman from a drunk's abuse. Often, three weeks later, the woman ends up dead because there was no where to turn.
To-day, I just don't like the taste. I much prefer my tea and coffee.
Cheers,
Jim
Bronconagurski
New Member
Thomas Helwys
New Member
What would be missing in a Christian's life if they have to have two pieces of pie? It's just because it's yummy. If it's in moderation, it's not an issue.
For once I agree with you because for once yours is a sensible post.
Hope you don't mind me picking at you a bit.
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