Aliens

[BobRyan]

I just gotta think there "Are angels" And that Angels are not born in New Jersey.

I also gotta think that the myriads and myriads listed in Dan 7 in the courtroom of heaven - are not people from Kansas who got to heaven for the judgment of the saints where "judgment is finally passed in favor of the saints" Dan 7:22.

Which means that God did make other intelligent life - other than humans.

In CHrist,

Bob

 

[Marcia]

@ webdog

This is a very complicated issue and unfortunately most christians either simply deny it or don't know anything about it. But there are people which have had experiences with so called "aliens". Many have even been abducted. A Harvard professor did a study on the abductions and came to the conclusion that there are abductions which are really real.

I am asked about aliens a lot in my ministry. I read the articles on this Harvard prof when he said this. He was hypnotizing the people and thus what they said is invalid.

If people "remember" being abducted or seeing aliens, you can put it through the same grid as seeing ghosts:
1. It's a hoax or lie
2. It's imagination or delusion (or dreaming); hallucination, or false memories induced by hypnosis
3. It's due to natural causes
4. It's demonic

I discuss this more fully in my book SpellBound, which discusses the occult and how to evalute it Biblically.

I knew some witches when I was an astrologer who claimed aliens had contacted them and were wanting to take over their bodies. This was clearly demonic, imo. However, at the time, since I did not believe in demons, I did not know how to explain this although I did not really believe in aliens then, either. I thought maybe it was mass hallucination or the power of suggestion.

A few years ago, I wrote a brief article on aliens for another ministry that is on their site:
http://www.watchman.org/na/ufomontg.htm

 

[4Pillars]

Well, the Scripture speaks of other worlds, does is not? Is it me or you all of missed reading it? 'Want Scripture?

I honestly believe, Noah' Ark/family was brought to this earth -- some 10k years ago similar to the way Apostle Paul was taken to the third heaven -- and started human civilization on this "Planet of Apes" (scientist term). However, I don't consider them aliens but humans.

In fact, based on the Scripture, their world THEN WAS being overflowed with waters PERISHED (Greek totally destroyed; gone) -- when the windows of heaven were opened , Gen. 7:11. Our present world is reserve for fire, as it is written.

Therefore, I won't be surprise if there are other intelligence or creatures beyond our own universe.

John 14
1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. v2 In my Father's house are MANY MANSIONS: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

God Bless

 

[Amy.G]

Well, the Scripture speaks of other worlds, does is not? Is it me or you all of missed reading it? 'Want Scripture?

I honestly believe, Noah' Ark/family was brought to this earth -- some 10k years ago similar to the way Apostle Paul was taken to the third heaven -- and started human civilization on this "Planet of Apes" (scientist term). However, I don't consider them aliens but humans.

In fact, based on the Scripture, their world THEN WAS being overflowed with waters PERISHED (Greek totally destroyed; gone) -- when the windows of heaven were opened , Gen. 7:11. Our present world is reserve for fire, as it is written.

Therefore, I won't be surprise if there are other intelligence or creatures beyond our own universe.

John 14
1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. v2 In my Father's house are MANY MANSIONS: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

God Bless

Read Genesis 5. Noah was a descendant of Adam.

 

[Allan]

I'll Toss in my nickle here since Science is one of my academic hobbies. Note English (spelling and grammer) are not! :laugh:

I believe 100% in UFO's.
I believe without a doubt there are abductions with direct correlation to the UFO's.

I however do not believe in outer biological life, beyond the possiblility of bacterial (maybe) as there still has never been any 'concrete' proof even of bacterial life. There is suggestive 'evedence' but nothing that has been definitively proven. That aside:

I believe that the abductions and UFOs are either demonic or government groups with varying agendas. Some are testing new technologies with regard to aircraft and others use such aircraft to abduct and perform live testing on individuals as they choose. If someone ever sees it happening, the story they would tell the press is: I was abducted by aliens in their UFO and they prerformed strange tests on me. Now who would print that story verse Government found performing test on unsuspecting citizens - which do you think will make the 6 O'clock News!

I do know some of the above is true due to an Uncle of mine being a comander of several special forces teams stating He has seen Government things that will make you turn pale and technology that seems almost straight from Star Treck. That is about the extent I ever got from him, go figure.

What is a UFO - Un-identified Flying Object.
This does not mean of alien tech. but that it is not something seen regularly or known about. The Testing of the Stealth Bomber was for years a so called UFO from its test sight in and around a secret Gov. Air Base - Area 51. It was not until they released the Info of it's existence (the coming out party so to speak) that people via sightings and vague pictures realized what they saw was not a UFO just a new type of plane/jet.

The possiblility of biological life on other planets biblically is absolutely Zero.
Why, scripture does not state God created any biological life save that of THIS Planet and spiritual beings such as Angels which has a sub-group of Angels that rebelled and were cast out now called demons. We also can fall into both catagories but for simplicity I place us in the biological.

The possibility of biological life on other planets scientifically (evelution) is absolutely Zero as well.
Why, because what they hold to as the 'HOW' life occured on this planet is so astronomically absurd that even IF it did happen according to evelution view the possibility of it happening more times elsewhere is infinatley impossible that it would be duplicated.

Much of what we hear is a combination of the the Demonic and the Government.

 

[Bro. James]

Aliens--in River City

There is only one source of infallible information: Holy Writ.

Satan has deluded and deceived many by causing doubt and uncertainty.

Trying to harmonize "National Enquirer", Government Reports and Scripture is an exercise in futility--and stupidity. Giving credence to anything which has come from man's depraved mind leads one to the "ditch of doubt".:BangHead:
...nothing wrong with critical thinking--while using the Scripture as the only standard and the Holy Spirit as the only guide.

Side note: Noah was 120 yrs. on this globe building the Ark--while the world scoffed. Then God closed the door. The world still scoffs. Now what?

Even so, come Lord Jesus.

Choose wisely,

Bro. James

 

[pinoybaptist]

If there are UFO's and aliens, then I believe God is still sovereign over all, including them, and if God is my God, and I am His child, then we will both reign over all, including them.

Gosh, this is ridiculous.

Why are we even considering anything beyond the Word of God ?

 

[Not_hard_to_find]

I believe that the abductions and UFOs are either demonic or government groups with varying agendas. Some are testing new technologies with regard to aircraft and others use such aircraft to abduct and perform live testing on individuals as they choose. ... Much of what we hear is a combination of the the Demonic and the Government.

Would those explanations apply to April 19, 1897, Aurora, Texas?

Fifty years before the Roswell crash - before 'UFOs' were even invented - there was the mother of all social panics: the great American airship mystery. In 1896 and the following year, unusual craft were crusing the skies from coast to coast, powered by eerily silent engines and projecting powerful beams of light. One Spring morning in 1897 one of these enigmas visited Aurora, Texas.

http://www.forteantimes.com/articles/115_aurora.shtml
http://www.texasescapes.com/Paranormal/Aurora-Incident.htm
http://www.altereddimensions.net/aliens/AuroraTexasCrash.htm

I don't recommend any of these sites for anything beyond the Aurora reports.

 

[Allan]

Evidently some of the machinery was out of order, for it was making a speed of only ten or twelve miles an hour, and gradually settling toward the earth. It sailed over the public square and when it reached the north part of town it collided with the tower of Judge Proctor's windmill and went into pieces with a terrific explosion, scattering debris over several acres of ground, wrecking the windmill and water tank and destroying the judge's flower garden. The pilot of the ship is supposed to have been the only one aboard and, while his remains were badly disfigured, enough of the original has been picked up to show that he was not an inhabitant of this world. Mr. T.J. Weems, the U.S. Army Signal Service officer at this place and an authority on astronomy gives it as his opinion that the pilot was a native of the planet Mars. Papers found on his person, evidently the records of his travels, are written in some unknown hieroglyphics and cannot be deciphered. This ship was too badly wrecked to form any conclusion as to its construction or motive power.
It was built of an unknown metal, resembling somewhat a mixture of aluminum and silver, and it must have weighed several tons. The town is today full of people who are viewing the wreckage and gathering specimens of strange metal from the debris. The pilot's funeral will take place tomorrow.

This is THE MOST BOGUS STORY...third rate journalism...I have seen in a while.
I love how the article 'about' this story shows these slow moving cigar shaped or 'blimp' like aircraft are highly more intellegent beings yet their speed compared to our aircraft today is extrodinarily limited.
Let me show another thing:
This 'airship' (interesting word, I wonder where it came from) made of metel seeming to be aluminum and silver (shiny, firm, yet plyable) Moving slowly at about the year 1890. Was there anything like this around at that time:
Wikipedia: Zepplin

An airship or dirigible is a buoyant aircraft that can be steered and propelled through the air. Unlike aerodynamic craft (e.g. airplanes and helicopters) which stay aloft by moving an airfoil through the air in order to produce lift, aerostatic craft such as airships (and balloons) stay aloft primarily by means of a cavity (usually quite large) filled with a gas of lesser density than the surrounding atmosphere.

Airships were the first aircraft to make controlled, powered flight. Their widest use took place from roughly 1900 through the 1930...:

The most important feature of Zeppelin's design is a rigid aluminium alloy skeleton, made of rings and longitudinal girders. The advantage of this concept is that the ships can be built much larger, which enables them to lift heavier loads and be equipped with more numerous and powerful engines than non-rigid airships commonly known as blimps, which rely on a slight overpressure within the single gasbag to maintain their shape... Look at ALL of these models of 'airships' do you notice anything similar - THEY ARE ALL CIGAR SHAPED!

These sites say - remember there were not aircraft like these back then, acrually YES THERE WERE and there were alot of Sci-fi books about these imaginative wonders. I also love the contradicting facts of the story in just this article. An alien never seen before is Identified this being as a 'native' (sic) of Mars being that he is an authority on astronomy. This Martain had papers (I guess his data pad wasn't working) thats evidently is a record of his travel (must be an intergalactic passport) but it in written in unknown hieroglyphics and can't be disifered. :laugh: The ship was to too badly wrecked to form any conclusions about its construction but they have (according to this news report) a multitude of eyewitness who could describe it in detail. The town is FULL of people collecting this strange metal unknown to man (remember there is TONS of this stuff) yet there is no known samples of it anywhere to be found. If people want to say the government came and took it - Well the government didn't care anything about it since it wasn't until QUOTE "The Aurora story was quietly forgotten but in a May 24, 1973" where the Gov. decides they want to see this Martian body and have to get a court order to exume the grave because the town wont allow it.

You use the National Enquire style websites to try to validate you points only to deepen any sceptism about it.

You also state"

"I don't recommend any of these sites for anything beyond the Aurora reports."

If it is no good for anything else, it is no good for this as well. You can't say This is a poisoned apple except for this one bite right here. If it is poisoned it's poisoned.

Here maybe this will help somewhat:

... the famed Aurora, Texas UFO crash of 1897. Unfortunately, the Aurora case is generally accepted in the UFO field as having been a hoax. This is the conclusion reached by historian Ronald Story in his 1980 "Encyclopedia of UFOS", and also by better-known UFO historian Jerry Clark. (And also by Dr. J. Allen Hynek and others!) Clark has a long article about Aurora in his most recent encyclopedia, detailing the involvement of various researchers through the years, including Hayden Hewes of the International UFO Bureau (now defunct), and MUFON.

Additional info about dirigible also know as "AIRSHIPS"

In 1872, the French naval architect Dupuy de Lome launched a large limited navigable balloon, which was driven by a large propeller and the power of eight people. It was developed during the Franco-Prussian war, as an improvement to the balloons used for communications between Paris and the countryside during the Siege of Paris by German forces, but was only completed after the end of the war.

Charles F. Ritchel made a public demonstration flight in 1878 of his hand-powered one-man rigid airship and went on to build and sell five of his aircraft.

Paul Haenlein flew an airship with an internal combustion engine on a tether in Vienna, the first use of such an engine to power an aircraft.

In 1880, Karl Wölfert and Ernst Georg August Baumgarten attempted to fly a powered airship in free flight, but crashed.

In the 1880's a Serb named Ogneslav Kostovic Stepanovic also designed and built an airship. However the craft was destroyed by fire before it flew.

Do you not think the American Government was not trying to make their own. I mean we did use something like it is the Civil War which is where Zepplin (watch on the outskirts of the battle as an observer) got the idea.

 

[4Pillars]

Well, the Scripture speaks of other worlds, does is not? Is it me or you all of missed reading it? 'Want Scripture?

I honestly believe, Noah' Ark/family was brought to this earth -- some 10k years ago similar to the way Apostle Paul was taken to the third heaven -- and started human civilization on this "Planet of Apes" (scientist term). However, I don't consider them aliens but humans.

In fact, based on the Scripture, their world THEN WAS being overflowed with waters PERISHED (Greek totally destroyed; gone) -- when the windows of heaven were opened , Gen. 7:11. Our present world is reserve for fire, as it is written.

Therefore, I won't be surprise if there are other intelligence or creatures beyond our own universe.

John 14
1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. v2 In my Father's house are MANY MANSIONS: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

God Bless

Read Genesis 5. Noah was a descendant of Adam.

Correct, Noah was a descendant of Adam (human) but never had a chance to set a foot on this "planet of Apes "(scientist term) .

However, the living creatures (mankind) who were here when Noah and his family arrived where already inhabiting this planet milion of year ago. They are called "prehistoric man" by our scientist but "sons of God" by the Lord.

 

[Not_hard_to_find]

This is THE MOST BOGUS STORY...third rate journalism...I have seen in a while.

Regrettably, I could not reach the archives of the original 1897 articles. Will attempt again to do so.

Yes, the story resurfaced after UFOs became fodder. Doesn't explain the articles written in 1897. Please feel free to do your own research there.

Went back and downloaded photo of original newspaper article -- "Dr. E. Etuart, an acknowledged authority in metaphysics, gives it as his opinion that the whole affair is due to hypnotism and bad whiskey."

Sounds as good as any other answer here.

 

[Allan]

The story I quoted was FROM the News Paper.

and there were many of the same types of aircraft potentially around at THAT TIME PERIOD.

It discription is IDENTICAL to that of the Zepplin style airships (as they were called for 20 or so years prior to the incident) so much so the explosion is quiet accuratly explained especially when petrol was being experimentally used on these airships and was succesfully done so in 1888.

In 1883, the first electric-powered flight was made by Gaston Tissandier who fitted a 1-1/2 horsepower Siemens electric motor to an airship. The first fully controllable free-flight was made in a French Army airship, La France, by Charles Renard and Arthur Krebs in 1884. The 170 foot long , 66,000 cubic foot airship covered 8 km (5 miles) in 23 minutes with the aid of an 8-1/2 horsepower electric motor.

In 1888, Wölfert flew a Daimler-built petrol engine powered airship at Seelburg.

 

[Allan]

Correct, Noah was a descendant of Adam (human) but never had a chance to set a foot on this "planet of Apes "(scientist term) .

However, the living creatures (mankind) who were here when Noah and his family arrived where already inhabiting this planet milion of year ago. They are called "prehistoric man" by our scientist but "sons of God" by the Lord.

Except my friend you forget that this ARK was built to float on WATER not fly in space. It was built of wood and tar. Not metal and fiber optics. And the historic land marks during Adams day (ie. the four rivers from the Garden) are still markers even today. Thus showing they were of THIS planet, never left this planet, and when stepping off the Ark noticed they were still alive on THIS planet.

Your theory is quite flawed my freind.
Not to mention your understanding of scripture is without a doubt, absolutely WRONG in this area.

 

[Not_hard_to_find]

The story I quoted was FROM the News Paper.

My apologies. I was thrown by your references to current tabloids and did not read properly.

 

[4Pillars]

Except my friend you forget that this ARK was built to float on WATER not fly in space. It was built of wood and tar. Not metal and fiber optics. And the historic land marks during Adams day (ie. the four rivers from the Garden) are still markers even today. Thus showing they were of THIS planet, never left this planet, and when stepping off the Ark noticed they were still alive on THIS planet.

Your theory is quite flawed my freind.
Not to mention your understanding of scripture is without a doubt, absolutely WRONG in this area.

Dear Allan,

The Garden of Eden was on a mountain, for a river went out of Eden and split into four heads. Please show us where, on this planet, a river, which leaves a mountain, splits into four rivers and waters the whole face of the earth.

Genesis 7:20-24 shows that the Ark was 22 feet above the highest mountains 150 days or 5 Months after the beginning of the Flood.

Genesis 8:4 shows that the Ark rested upon the mountains of Ararat on the SAME 150 the Day after the Flood began. The Flood began in February and the Ark rested on the mountains of Ararat 5 Months or 150 days after the Flood began, on the 7th Month.

IF the great flood happened on this planet -- 22 feet above Mt. Everest ( basically considered to be the highest mountain -- not Mt. Ararat) – then the waters would still be here. A fig tree could not have germinate and put forth leaves given time frame by the Scripture. Where is you logic?

IOW, what you failed to realize -- when the Ark was 22 feet above the water which destroyed their world, Noah and his Ark were brought to our Earth SIMILAR to the way Paul was taken to the 3rd heaven (2 Corinthians 12:2)-- in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye. All Christians will be taken away to another world during the "Rapture" -- now would you described them fleet of spaceships? :BangHead:

Therefore, AS IT IS WRITTEN, the first heaven/earth were NOT SPARED -- as you would like others to believe.



TRY AGAIN?

 

[Allan]

Dear Allan,

The Garden of Eden was on a mountain, for a river went out of Eden and split into four heads. Please show us where, on this planet, a river, which leaves a mountain, splits into four rivers and waters the whole face of the earth.

Genesis 7:20-24 shows that the Ark was 22 feet above the highest mountains 150 days or 5 Months after the beginning of the Flood.

Genesis 8:4 shows that the Ark rested upon the mountains of Ararat on the SAME 150 the Day after the Flood began. The Flood began in February and the Ark rested on the mountains of Ararat 5 Months or 150 days after the Flood began, on the 7th Month.

IF the great flood happened on this planet -- 22 feet above Mt. Everest ( basically considered to be the highest mountain -- not Mt. Ararat) – then the waters would still be here. A fig tree could not have germinate and put forth leaves given time frame by the Scripture. Where is you logic?

IOW, what you failed to realize -- when the Ark was 22 feet above the water which destroyed their world, Noah and his Ark were brought to our Earth SIMILAR to the way Paul was taken to the 3rd heaven (2 Corinthians 12:2)-- in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye. All Christians will be taken away to another world during the "Rapture" -- now would you described them fleet of spaceships? :BangHead:

Therefore, AS IT IS WRITTEN, the first heaven/earth were NOT SPARED -- as you would like others to believe.

My, my what big lies you have!

Let's see if this makes sense. Noah (a Space Alien Human) and his family made a spacecraft of wood and tar and this took 120 years to build. Then He got into his ship 7 DAYS BEFORE THE FLOOD EVENT and NEVER took off. He waited instead 150 days (while floating on the water) and then was telaported to safty on a planet that was just recovering from a WORLD WIDE FLOOD. ***Bogle***

You don know much about science do you?
Lets us look at this space craft of yours. That is spelled out SPECIFICALLY on how it was built!

II. The Design of the Ark

A. The Designer was God Himself. We do not need to assume Noah knew anything about ship-building. The instructions for design are given in Gen. 6:14ff.

B. Construction Materials

The Bible says the Ark was to be built of "gopher wood". "Gopher" is the actual Hebrew word. In early English translations the meaning of the word was unknown so it was left untranslated. The NIV translates it "cypress wood", however, this is only a guess. It was undoubtedly translated this way due to the fact that cypress wood is highly resistant to rot. What this material was is still a mystery. It could have been a pre-flood wood with which we are not familiar.

It is almost certain that Noah did not construct a standard wooden ship of the kind we are familiar. According to nautical engineers the longest wooden vessel ever built was 360 feet in length and was not seaworthy. Because of the wave action of the sea only wooden ships shorter than this will be seaworthy. Therefore, we must conclude that Noah used some other method of construction to overcome this problem.

C. The Design.

1. The Biblical word for Ark is "tebah". It is used 28 times in the OT and is only used of Noah's Ark and for the container in which Moses was hidden among the bulrushes. Because of a similar Egyptian word meaning "box", and the ultimate purpose of the Ark, we believe the Ark was not like a streamlined vessel designed to easily glide through the water. More likely it was shaped like a rectangular barge which floated rather low in the water. From the story in the Bible, it also would appear that Noah had no control over the vessel. He, and it contents were at the total mercy of God.

2. The Ark had three stories with only one door. The phrase in Gen. 6:16, "Make a roof for it and finish the Ark to within 18 inches of the top." is problematic in that the words used are obscure. Most commentators believe it means leave an 18 inch space at the top that is open all around the vessel. This then would be for ventilation, and when water entered it would drain out somewhere below, similar to the vents in cars.

3. The Ark was to be coated inside and out with pitch.

Again the Hebrew word for "pitch" is obscure. It was more likely some resinous material used not only to waterproof the vessel but also to prevent decay. If Noah was 480 years old when God told him to build an Ark and 600 when the Flood came, it is reasonable to assume that the construction of the Ark took place during this 120 year period (See Gen. 6:3 along with I Pet. 3:20). The need for this preservative was essential. It is also possible that things did not decay as rapidly in the pre-flood atmosphere.

4. The phrase in the NIV (6:14) "make rooms" is also problematic in that the word is obscure. The Hebrew is "qnm". Since Hebrew did not have any vowels when it was written, scholars speculate that the word could be either "qinnim" or "qanim". The former would mean either "rooms" or "nest", and the later, "reeds". Most English translations translate as in the former. However, some of the better and more recent commentaries, believe it should be translated "reeds" since the context is building materials. If in reality it is "reeds", then somehow reeds were part of the construction material. Large boats are still made from reeds and are very seaworthy. The Egyptians still use reeds for caulking their wooden ships.

III. The Size of the Ark

(When considering its size it obviously was not the backyard effort of a primitive river-dweller!)

A. It is given in cubits as being 300 cubits long by 50 cubits wide and 30 cubits high. A cubit in the OT was generally about 17.5 inches. However, an Egyptian royal cubit measured about 20.5 inches. Since Moses was educated in Egypt we must allow for the possibility that the longer measurement was meant here. The Ark, therefore, could have measured from 437 feet to 512 feet in length! It was not until the late 19th century that a ship anywhere near this size was built.

B. It's Ratio

The Ark had a ratio (length x width x height) of 30 x 5 x 3. According to ship-builders, this ratio represents an advanced knowledge of ship-building since it is the optimum design for stability in rough seas. The Ark, as designed by God, was virtually impossible to capsize! It would have to have been tilted over 90 degrees in order to capsize.

C. Its Volume.

With the shorter cubit the Ark would have an internal volume of 1,518,750 cubic feet, or the equivalent of 569 standard railroad boxcars. If the average sized animal was the size of a sheep it means the Ark could hold over 125,000 sheep. (Assuming the shape of the Ark to be rectangular there would have been over 100,000 sq. ft of floor space!)

IV. It's Construction

Though the Bible does not say, it seems reasonable that Noah employed a large group of workman to build the Ark. If Noah started building the Ark soon after God spoke to him, then the process of building the Ark may have taken close to 120 years.

Hmmm... Nope that sucker wont fly! But made actually mean that Noah built a normal boat and God teleported it away to another world. This is just as ridiculous as God could have doen this teleporting at any time but not only waited 7 days before condeming this 'other' planet but also waited 150 more days after. Oh, maybe large amounts of water is the catalyst that God has to use in order to teleport properly!!?? And by the way - Paul into the third Heaven was done SPIRITUALLY and NOT physically!

Your 150 days on the water is only PART of the story which either you don't know your scripture or you just choose to be ignorant of it. But in either case let us look:

It rained for 40 days and nights. The waters prevailed on the earth 150 days, covering the mountains. The water continued to prevail for five months and took considerable time to recede (Gen. 8:3-4,14). Noah and his family left the Ark, one year and 10 days after the flood started (Compare Gen. 7:11 with 8:13-14).

He was not in the ARK 150 days my friend but a YEAR AND TEN DAYS. It was AFTER this 150 days the waters began to recede (no longer prevailed) and is why Noah was on the Ark another 220 days! God did not promise to NEVER AGAIN Flood 'THIS' world like the other but that He would never again Flood THE world.

Your arguments are from the absurd, and to not use all of the scripture but only prooftext (using scripture out of context) what you want to see.

I rest my case on the whole of scripture.

On a Side Note: scripture also states:

2Pe 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 2Pe 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as [they were] from the beginning of the creation.
2Pe 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

The world that came out of the water (creation event) and IN the water (the Flood Event) and that God did not completely destroy it (The Flood) but He has kept in for unto the final judgment against sin.

Yet men will in those last days come saying these biblical accounts did not happen as you state but we have a different meaning for them, or even that they never happened. Think carefully and choose wisely concerning the truths of scripture.

 

[4Pillars]

Dear Allan,

The 1st Firmament or Heaven was made on the 2nd Day. Gen 1:6-8 It was formed in the midst or middle of the Water, and Water was above and below it. IOW, the 1st Heaven, was surrounded by water. It was later destroyed, totally and completely, by that same Water, when the "windows of heaven were opened. Gen. 7:11

2Peter 2
5 And SPARED NOT THE OLD WORLD , but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

As I have said, the 1st world (kosmos) was not spared, as it is written.

However, if you cannot understand that the Rapture is physically leaving the present world, and going to another world, then you will just have to remain ignorant of how Noah left the world of Adam,and came to this present, lost and dying world. I am sorry that you cannot comprehend such a simple concept. Seemingly, your understanding of the Scripture is very poor, therefore, you should try get somebody to read and comprehend for you. ... because I don't lie, as you've accuse me of.

Even, your own cited text prove my case, look ....

Read very slowly....

2Peter 3:5-7 tells us of Scoffers of this last days -- just like you -- beware!

5 For this they WILLINGLY ARE IGNORANT of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

6 Whereby the world (Kosmos) that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: (Greek -Totally destroyed - dissolved - gone)

7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

As we can see, the heavens (our universe) and the earth which are now -- strongly indicate that Noah' flood was NOT just a local flood but a universal one - and necessitate a NEW HEAVEN.... AND NEW EARTH -- which are now....

Now, the question is.... Do you have any Scripture (even just one) to sustain your objection to my post? :sleep:

 

[Allan]

However, if you cannot understand that the Rapture is physically leaving the present world, and going to another world, then you will just have to remain ignorant of how Noah left the world of Adam,and came to this present, lost and dying world. I am sorry that you cannot comprehend such a simple concept. Seemingly, your understanding of the Scripture is very poor, therefore, you should try get somebody to read and comprehend for you. ...

Uh, DUH! It is simply a designation of the before and after concerning the Flood Event. Do you realize this perposterous view HAS NEVER been held by ANYONE until recently. Jesus Himself, the VERY God never insinuated such. The Old world is not a reference to some other world but this world pre-flood that was CHANGED into this post-flood world we NOW live.

BTW there are three heavens discribed in scripture - one is the atmosphere where the fowls fly, the second is where the stars exist, and the third is the dwelling of God and THIS heaven is SPIRITUAL. When we are raptured we will not go to some other planet but INTO HEAVEN (never some planet) and then BACK TO THIS EARTH.

The Old world (that pre-flood world that we no longer are a part of) was distroyed as in all life died, not that the planet was destroyed. Stop adding your herisies to the scripture. It says what it means and means JUST WhAT IT SAYS.

You can believe what ever >>>EDITED OUT<<< (I went just a little overboard - sorry everyone) views you want but do not bring them into a place it HAS NEVER BEEN APART OF in the HISTORY OF CHRISTIANITY nor that of JUDAISM.

The NEW HEAVEN and NEW EARTH are yet future. Of course they ARE NOW because it is not what IT WAS pre-flood. NOTHING You state holds to the rest of scripture.

You have no historical, contextual, nor biblical basis for your herisies of being transfered fro and to a different planet. Keep your New Age views and I'll stand by that which has been the view since Jesus Himself and carried along by the early church fathers until this day.

 

[Not_hard_to_find]

Wow. After these postings I can understand the profile entry non-denominational.

I'm certain you understand the reception your views received.

 

[BobRyan]

I honestly believe, Noah' Ark/family was brought to this earth -- some 10k years ago similar to the way Apostle Paul was taken to the third heaven -- and started human civilization on this "Planet of Apes" (scientist term). However, I don't consider them aliens but humans.

While we DO see Christ as the "Creator of WORLDS" in Heb 1:2-6 -- we have nothing in Genesis 6 telling us that noah was from some other world -

We have nothing in Gen 1-2:3 telling us that this is NOT the creation account of our world.

In fact both OT and NT authors affirm that this is the account of our world and the people we see coming from Adam lived on our world.

In Christ,

Bob