Alito

[Kamoroso]

DOCTRINAL NOTE
on some questions regarding
The Participation of Catholics in Political Life

The above is a document from the Church of Rome that came out in 2002. It serves the purpose of instructing Roman Catholic politicians regarding their duty as such. It’s very existence, proves that the Church of Rome intends to direct the influence of her politicians world wide, toward the realization of her own goals.

Though not mentioned in the above document, as I have already pointed out, the Church of Rome believes that, “Christians will naturally strive to ensure that civil legislation respects their duty to keep Sunday holy."

They believe that there should be laws establishing the day of the Sun as a holy day. Most on this board agree with the Church of Rome’s stance on abortion and other issues. Therefore, they are not concerned that the Church might influence their politicians to bring about these things. What about Sunday sacredness being established by civil law? Do you agree with that?

The SDA church has been telling the world, and this country, that these things would happen for over one hundred and fifty years now. This country was predominantly Protestant, and even anti Catholic, when we first started giving this message. For a long time this nation frowned upon Roman Catholic politicians. This was due to the outrageous abuses suffered by those who were subject to her authority in the past.

Now, this country is rapidly becoming predominantly Roman Catholic. Our government already is. We know that the Church of Rome is a political entity. That she is, and fully intends to influence her politicians in the world to further her own ends. We also know that she believes that Sunday sacredness should be established by law.

These things are unfolding right before our very eyes. Still, the world, and even most who claim to be Christians, are in complete denial of the same. Ignoring the facts of the matter, certainly will not change the outcome.

Here is another interesting tidbit. The Vatican has recently established a sports department. Pope John Paul II was responsible for the same. He also issued a statement saying that Sunday is for God, not sports. I think it very likely, that the main purpose of the sports department, is to influence the sports world toward shifting the playing of their games away from the day of the Sun. I have already read a couple of articles pertaining to peoples desire to bring about the same.

Bye for now. Y. b. in C. Keith

 

[mioque]

"What about Sunday sacredness being established by civil law? Do you agree with that?"
"
Yes. Most people in Western Civilization like their 2 free days each week, courtesy of a coalition of labour unions, Jews and Christians. I know a coalition of Capitalists and SDA's is chipping away at that privilege, but for now it's holding.
RALLY CHRISTIAN SOLDIERS!!!!!!!

 

[BobRyan]

Dark Ages -- Millions of Christians slaughtered "Much ado about nothing" to those who watch with careless indifference.

Rev 12 describes that historic persecution of the saints for those 1260 years - as does Daniel 7 -- and yet we see many today watering those clear texts down to "meaninless jibberish" so that they can view the atrocities committed with indifference and are free to assume "nothing to learn nothing to be warned of".

Amazing how the frog seeks to boil again!

Don't get me wrong - I do not claim that the ending fate of the US is to have "the RCC take over its government". But the same principles that it promoted in its prime are STILL basic to the church that claims to be infallible!

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Here we find a small tiny window of "confession" open to the RCC - and a moment when it almost went for it -

Consider the following news stories from the Vatican City.

Vatican Hosts Inquisition Symposium

By CANDICE HUGHES

.c The Associated Press

VATICAN CITY (AP) – The Vatican assembled a blue-ribbon panel of scholars Thursday to examine the Inquisition and declared its readiness to submit the church's darkest institution to the judgment of history.

The three-day symposium is part of the Roman Catholic Church's countdown to 2000. Pope John Paul II wants the church to begin the new millennium with a clear conscience, which means facing up to past sins.

For many people, the Inquisition is one of the church's worst transgressions. For centuries, ecclesiastical ``thought police'' tried, tortured and burned people at the stake for heresy and other crimes.

``The church cannot cross the threshold of the new millennium without pressing its children to purify themselves in repentance for their errors, infidelity, incoherence,'' Cardinal Roger Etchegaray said, opening the conference.

The inquisitors went after Protestants, Jews, Muslims and presumed heretics. They persecuted scientists like Galileo. They banned the Bible in anything but Latin, which few ordinary people could read.

The Inquisition began in the 13th century and lasted into the 19th. An index of banned books endured even longer, until 1966. And it was 1992 before the church rehabilitated Galileo, condemned for saying the Earth wasn't the center of the universe.

The symposium, which gathers experts from inside and outside the church, is the Vatican's first critical look at the church's record of repression.

Among other things, it will give scholars a chance to compare notes on what they've found in the secret Vatican archives on the Inquisition, which the Holy See only recently opened.

``The church is not afraid to submit its past to the judgment of history,'' said Etchegaray, a Frenchman who leads the Vatican's Commission on the Grand Jubilee.

Closed to the public and press, the symposium is not expected to produce any definitive statement from the Vatican on the Inquisition. That is expected in 2000 as part of the grand ``mea culpa'' at the start of Christianity's third millennium.

The great question is whether the pontiff will ask forgiveness for the sins of the church's members, as it did with the Holocaust, or for the sins of the church itself. Unlike the Holocaust, the Inquisition was a church initiative authorized by the popes themselves.

Etchegaray on Thursday swept aside the idea that it can be seen a series of local campaigns whose excesses might be blamed on secular authorities. There was only one Inquisition, he said, and it was undeniably an ecclesiastical institution.

The pontiff may give a hint as to his thinking on Saturday, when he meets with participants in the conference.

About 50 scholars from Europe, the United States and Latin America are taking part.

AP-NY-10-29-98 1403EST

============================================================

Catholic Church says must own up for Inquisition

By Alessandra Galloni

VATICAN CITY, Oct 29 (Reuters) - The Vatican on Thursday said it had to take responsibility for one of the darkest eras in Roman Catholic church history and not lay blame for the Inquisition on civil prosecutors.

Cardinal Roger Etchegaray, head of the Vatican's main committee for the year 2000, opened a three-day symposium on the Inquisition saying it was time to re-examine the work of the special court the church set up in 1233 to curb heresy.

Etchegaray said some scholars claimed there were several inquisitions: one in Rome, which worked directly under the Holy See's control, and others in Spain and in Portugal which were often aided by the local civil courts.

``We cannot ignore the fact that this (attempt to distinguish between inquisitions) has allowed some to make apologetic arguments and lay responsibility for what Iberian tribunals did onto civil authorities,'' he said.

``The fact that the Spanish and Portuguese crowns...had powers of intervention...on inquisitory tribunals does not change the ecclesiastical character of the institution,'' he said.

Pope Gregory IX created the Inquisition to help curb heresy, but church officials soon began to count on civil authorities to fine, imprison and even torture heretics.

One of the Inquisition's best known victims was the astronomer Galileo, condemned for claiming the earth revolved around the sun.

The Inquisition reached its height in the 16th century to counter the Reformation. The department later became the Holy Office and its successor now is called the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, which controls the orthodoxy of Catholic teaching.

Some of the conclusions of the international symposium, which ends on Saturday, could be included in a major document in which the church is expected to ask forgiveness for its past errors as part of celebrations for the year 2000.

The church ``cannot pass into the new millennium without urging its sons to purify themselves, through penitence, of its errors, its infidelities and its incoherences...,'' Father Georges Cottier, a top Vatican theologian and head of the theological commission for the year 2000, told the symposium.

Etchegaray said the conference could also draw on examples that scholars had been able to examine since January, when the Vatican opened secret files.

The archives also opened the infamous Index of Forbidden Books which Roman Catholics were not allowed to read or possess on pain of excommunication. Even the bible was on the blacklist.

Pope John Paul has said in several documents and speeches that the Church needs to assume responsibility for the Inquisition, which was responsible for the forced conversion of Jews as well as the torture and killing of heretics.

While there may have been mitigating historical factors for the behaviour of some Catholics, the Pope has said this did not prevent the church from expressing regret for the wrongs of its members in some periods of history.

He initiated the procedure that led to the rehabilitation of Galileo, completed in 1992.

19:01 10-29-98

 

[Kamoroso]

Amen Mioque. Take your stand. Rally together. Make up your minds. Let’s get this over with. Choose you this day whom you will worship, whether it is God, or man. God’s day, or man’s day.

Don’t worry Mioque, an entire world in rebellion against God will rally together with you. They will do so under the banner of Babylon the great, the Mother of Harlots, and the abominations of the earth. When they have exalted this abomination in the world through civil legislation, then desolation will soon follow, for it is the abomination of desolation that will be set up in place of the holy.

Matthew 24 13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. 15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand 16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.

I say, bring it on. Let’s get this mess over with. It won’t happen because of what I say though. Nor will it happen because of the coalition you speak of. It will happen because God’s word has said so.

Revelation 13 11And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. 12And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. 13And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, 14And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. 15And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. 16And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: 17And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. 18Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

The miracles have not taken place yet. Not to worry though, they will. God’s word is a sure thing. It was through Sunday legislation that the first beast, the Church of Rome, gained the power of the state. Though she received a deadly wound, that wound is almost completely healed. It will be through Sunday legislation that the second beast, the United states, once again establishes her with the power of the state. Thus, making an image to the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

Bye for now. Y. b. in C. Keith

 

[mioque]

BobRyan&Keith
Everybody else around here knows that your pet prophet is the Beast from that pesky last book in the Bible.

Come out of her my friends!

 

[hillclimber]

Originally posted by Ray Berrian:
hillclimber,
I have no complaints to bring before His throne. Praise God!

Me neither, just unrestrained praise and thankfulness.

 

[hillclimber]

Based on what I know of many Catholics around here, I have absolutely no worries about what their faith dictates they do. All of them I know live lives in the world, (as apposed to "In Christ") and hot foot it to confession to absolve themselves of consequences.

 

[hillclimber]

I know not all Catholics are that shallow.

 

[mioque]

hillclimber
There is still a large number of Catholics out there in the USA that go to confession? Overhere that's a tiny minority.

 

[Kamoroso]

Revelation 1 1The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to show unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: 2Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
3Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.


Revelation 22 18For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
20He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. 21The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.


God is the one who has put a special emphasis upon this book, not me.

Bye for now. Y. b. in C. Keith

 

[hillclimber]

Originally posted by mioque:
hillclimber
There is still a large number of Catholics out there in the USA that go to confession? Overhere that's a tiny minority.

Christianity is all but gone there, isn't it? we supported a missionary woman for several years in Denmark, and not a single soul was redeemed, but she fellowshipped with a very small cadre of believers.

 

[BobRyan]

I just love it!! I post a quote from Vatican City quoting Vatican sources directly and all mioque can do is rant!!

Originally posted by mioque:
BobRyan&Keith
Everybody else around here knows that your pet prophet is the Beast ... <pointless rant deleted>

I saw this thread with Mioque's name on one post and KNEW that revisionist history had to be rife here -- congrats to Mioque on that one!!

But it is always rewarding to see that one an RC source is quoted saying something that does not flatter the RCC Mioque is right there with pointless rhetoric -( an endless supply of it apparently) instead of substantive posts.

"Mioque -- never a clue"

But seriously - are the dark ages really as much a mystery to anyone else as they are to Mioque??

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by BobRyan:
Here we find a small tiny window of "confession" open to the RCC - and a moment when it almost went for it -

Consider the following news stories from the Vatican City.


</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />


Vatican Hosts Inquisition Symposium

By CANDICE HUGHES

.c The Associated Press

VATICAN CITY (AP) – The Vatican assembled a blue-ribbon panel of scholars Thursday to examine the Inquisition and declared its readiness to submit the church's darkest institution to the judgment of history.

The three-day symposium is part of the Roman Catholic Church's countdown to 2000. Pope John Paul II wants the church to begin the new millennium with a clear conscience, which means facing up to past sins.

For many people, the Inquisition is one of the church's worst transgressions. For centuries, ecclesiastical ``thought police'' tried, tortured and burned people at the stake for heresy and other crimes.

``The church cannot cross the threshold of the new millennium without pressing its children to purify themselves in repentance for their errors, infidelity, incoherence,'' Cardinal Roger Etchegaray said, opening the conference.

The inquisitors went after Protestants, Jews, Muslims and presumed heretics. They persecuted scientists like Galileo. They banned the Bible in anything but Latin, which few ordinary people could read.

The Inquisition began in the 13th century and lasted into the 19th. An index of banned books endured even longer, until 1966. And it was 1992 before the church rehabilitated Galileo, condemned for saying the Earth wasn't the center of the universe.

The symposium, which gathers experts from inside and outside the church, is the Vatican's first critical look at the church's record of repression.

Among other things, it will give scholars a chance to compare notes on what they've found in the secret Vatican archives on the Inquisition, which the Holy See only recently opened.

``The church is not afraid to submit its past to the judgment of history,'' said Etchegaray, a Frenchman who leads the Vatican's Commission on the Grand Jubilee.

Closed to the public and press, the symposium is not expected to produce any definitive statement from the Vatican on the Inquisition. That is expected in 2000 as part of the grand ``mea culpa'' at the start of Christianity's third millennium.

The great question is whether the pontiff will ask forgiveness for the sins of the church's members, as it did with the Holocaust, or for the sins of the church itself. Unlike the Holocaust, the Inquisition was a church initiative authorized by the popes themselves.

Etchegaray on Thursday swept aside the idea that it can be seen a series of local campaigns whose excesses might be blamed on secular authorities. There was only one Inquisition, he said, and it was undeniably an ecclesiastical institution.

The pontiff may give a hint as to his thinking on Saturday, when he meets with participants in the conference.

About 50 scholars from Europe, the United States and Latin America are taking part.

AP-NY-10-29-98 1403EST

============================================================

Catholic Church says must own up for Inquisition

By Alessandra Galloni

VATICAN CITY, Oct 29 (Reuters) - The Vatican on Thursday said it had to take responsibility for one of the darkest eras in Roman Catholic church history and not lay blame for the Inquisition on civil prosecutors.

Cardinal Roger Etchegaray, head of the Vatican's main committee for the year 2000, opened a three-day symposium on the Inquisition saying it was time to re-examine the work of the special court the church set up in 1233 to curb heresy.

Etchegaray said some scholars claimed there were several inquisitions: one in Rome, which worked directly under the Holy See's control, and others in Spain and in Portugal which were often aided by the local civil courts.

``We cannot ignore the fact that this (attempt to distinguish between inquisitions) has allowed some to make apologetic arguments and lay responsibility for what Iberian tribunals did onto civil authorities,'' he said.

``The fact that the Spanish and Portuguese crowns...had powers of intervention...on inquisitory tribunals does not change the ecclesiastical character of the institution,'' he said.

Pope Gregory IX created the Inquisition to help curb heresy, but church officials soon began to count on civil authorities to fine, imprison and even torture heretics.

One of the Inquisition's best known victims was the astronomer Galileo, condemned for claiming the earth revolved around the sun.

The Inquisition reached its height in the 16th century to counter the Reformation. The department later became the Holy Office and its successor now is called the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, which controls the orthodoxy of Catholic teaching.

Some of the conclusions of the international symposium, which ends on Saturday, could be included in a major document in which the church is expected to ask forgiveness for its past errors as part of celebrations for the year 2000.

The church ``cannot pass into the new millennium without urging its sons to purify themselves, through penitence, of its errors, its infidelities and its incoherences...,'' Father Georges Cottier, a top Vatican theologian and head of the theological commission for the year 2000, told the symposium.

Etchegaray said the conference could also draw on examples that scholars had been able to examine since January, when the Vatican opened secret files.

The archives also opened the infamous Index of Forbidden Books which Roman Catholics were not allowed to read or possess on pain of excommunication. Even the bible was on the blacklist.

Pope John Paul has said in several documents and speeches that the Church needs to assume responsibility for the Inquisition, which was responsible for the forced conversion of Jews as well as the torture and killing of heretics.

While there may have been mitigating historical factors for the behaviour of some Catholics, the Pope has said this did not prevent the church from expressing regret for the wrongs of its members in some periods of history.

He initiated the procedure that led to the rehabilitation of Galileo, completed in 1992.

19:01 10-29-98

</font>[/QUOTE]Oops! Did I already post that unanswered point?

 

[mioque]

hillclimber
"Christianity is all but gone there, isn't it?"
"
Steadily shrinking since half a century.
But even among the remaining regular churchgoers in the RCC going to confession has been out of vogue for decades.

Keith&Bob
Yeah, but I'm better at exegeting it than you guys.

 

[BobRyan]

The great question is whether the pontiff will ask forgiveness for the sins of the church's members, as it did with the Holocaust, or for the sins of the church itself. Unlike the Holocaust, the Inquisition was a church initiative authorized by the popes themselves.

I have to agree - that was "The great question" for anyone paying attention to history.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[mioque]

Ofcourse one has to wonder how relevant all of this is when it comes to judge Alito joining the SCOTUS.
Unless Bob and Keith can produce evidence that all those judges and politicians are devout members of Opus Dei or something similar it isn't.

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by BobRyan:

But seriously - are the dark ages really as much a mystery to anyone else as they are to Mioque??

In Christ,

Bob [/QB]

The point already made here is that the majority RCC Supreme Court is connected to an organization that claims to be infallible - that claims that it is prevented from error by definition and though the articles quoted here SHOW that some RC sources could not help to admit to the "obvious" -- still the church could not bring itself to actually admit that those historic actions were in error.

It is THAT faith, that belief that forms the context for 5 SCJs. If their highest moral authority can not admit that the dark ages were "a moral problem" for the institution presiding over it -- how can they be expected to have clear views on other moral issues of right and wrong when it comes to the actions of the state vs the people ?

The claim to infallibility for the RCC is central to its claim to retain its position as "The" Church of God rather than one of many. We have seen members of this board explicitly defend those sins those errors as the great deeds of their mother church.

Seems like an obvious point so far.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[mioque]

Bob
You are also a member of a only true church(TM) pretender.
Does that mean that I should be worried when some SDA's get a job at the Hoge Raad (the supreme court of the Netherlands)?

Also after all this time on one board with Carson Weber you still haven't learned the limitations of papal infallibility, which would be embarrassing if it wasn't so funny.

 

[Kamoroso]

2 Thessalonians 2 1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Before the Lord Jesus Christ returns the second time, Satan will work in this world with all power and signs and lying wonders. He will deceive all those who have not received the love of the truth. It is because these people do not love the truth, that God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie. That is to say, that God will allow Satan to work in this world with all power and lying wonders, to those who have already rejected the truth, that they should believe a lie.

Do not misunderstand me mioque, in thinking that I think the Church of Rome alone, and the pontiff of the same, will have the power to take over this country, and the world. It is in the fact that the Church of Rome promotes, and it’s members believe lies already, that Satan will be allowed to deceive them with all power, and lying wonders. Not only them, but all who choose to believe their lies. Foremost among them, I speak of Sunday sacredness. When these Roman Catholic politicians see the lying wonders of Satan, supporting the lies which they already believe, they will join forces to do the bidding of the one who has deceived them, according to their own desire. For all those who refuse to believe the truth, but rather take pleasure in unrighteousness, will be damned.

I again refer to Pope John Paul II's APOSTOLIC LETTER DIES DOMINI.

Therefore, also in the particular circumstances of our own time, Christians will naturally strive to ensure that civil legislation respects their duty to keep Sunday holy. In any case, they are obliged in conscience to arrange their Sunday rest in a way which allows them to take part in the Eucharist, refraining from work and activities which are incompatible with the sanctification of the Lord's Day, with its characteristic joy and necessary rest for spirit and body. (112)

God alone can sanctify, or make anything holy, for He alone is Holy. He has not sanctified, or made holy the first day of the week, but He has done so to the seventh day of the week. The Pontiff of Rome though, claims that the seventh day is no longer holy, but that the first day is. This He does with no scriptural authority, but purely of his own invention, and by his claim to authority, which God has never given him. He has sought to usurp the authority of God, and claimed the power to make something holy. For this, he will be damned, as will all those who accept, believe, and practice this lie.

All will choose between the authority of God, and the authority of man. The Pontiff of Rome represents the rebellion of humanity against God, and the ultimate power of His word. The Lord Jesus Christ is coming back soon. Make up your minds! Will you serve God alone, or will you serve man, or in other words, yourself. Is God, God, or are you God. Choose you this day, who you will serve. Soon, very soon, strong delusion will be sent upon all who have chosen to believe a lie.

Bye for now. Y. b. in C. Keith