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All equal in heaven?

M

mountainrun

New Member
I with Bill to disagree with Hope on the gnashing of teeth in Heaven.
That seems to apply to those who are cast out of Heaven.
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Luk 13:28 There shall be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and yourselves cast forth without.
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MR
 
H

Hope of Glory

New Member
Without even taking the surrounding verses, you can take the verse you quoted:

in the kingdom of God
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But, in context, it's talking about entering in at the strait gate. It's talking about works and entering the Kingdom. Those who fall short are the ones who are weeping and gnashing their teeth.

Then, take the next verse:

Luke 13:29 And they shall come from the east, and [from] the west, and from the north, and [from] the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.
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It's talking about entering the Kingdom, not spiritual salvation.
 
S

standingfirminChrist

New Member
'ye yourselves cast out' indicates that they are not in heaven. They are seeing Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God.

They are weeping because they missed the boat. They are not in heaven.
 
S

standingfirminChrist

New Member
Luke 13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all [ye] workers of iniquity.
Luke 13:28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you [yourselves] thrust out.


verse 27. we see them sent away. verse 28, they see heaven, they see all those inside,
 
H

Hope of Glory

New Member
You seem to be ignoring the word "Kingdom" for some reason, and you also seem to think that you can be "cast out" without being inside in the first place.

See the parallel passage in Matthew 8:12, in which they are cast out into outer darkness. Outer darkness: It's comparative; further out. I don't think that the lake of fire is simply "further out" in the Kingdom; it's separate; it's a different place.
 
S

standingfirminChrist

New Member
you are seeing the prophets in the kingdom of God, while you yourselves have been thrust out and are weeping and gnashing the teeth.

What is so hard to understand in that picture?
 
M

mountainrun

New Member
Being thrust out of the Kingdom must certainly be a figure of speech if you allow that "there shall in no wise enter into it anything unclean, or he that maketh an abomination and a lie: but only they that are written in the Lamb's book of life."

Rev 21:27

MR
 
G

GospelExplained.com

New Member
As per standingfirminChrist point,
I would suggest that the evil or wicked servant is unsaved, and denied entrance to the millenium because they are unsaved, their works bearing testimony to their spiritual depravity. I think to rightly understand these verses there is a need to look at the exact point in earth's history Jesus is attributing these events - that is entry into the millenium or the beginning Kingdom of Heaven on earth. Try considering these verses from the perspective that the wicked servant is standing before Christ at His second coming. Only the saved enter the millenial reign, the unsaved are cast out.

Rankings: vary between vessels of great honour and great dishonour. Based on how much we have submitted to Christ to fill us.
 
G

GospelExplained.com

New Member
Hope of Glory - "How can someone be cast outside without being inside in the first place?"

The issue is who can enter the millenium, or inherit the Kingdom. The division of the sheep from the goats, and specifically the removal of the goats is the departing/casting out of the unsaved from the face of the earth into the lake of fire.

Some suggest that as the wicked servant is called a servant - he MUST be saved and therefore in the millenial kingdom. Consider Judas, and those like him.

When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth [his] sheep from the goats:
Mat 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
...
Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
 
R

rbell

Active Member
You guys have it all wrong.

Anyone who has ever assisted with a Junior high lockin will get a honkin' huge crown.

Just my $0.0005 (after taxes)
 
M

mountainrun

New Member
Here's a thought...
The judgement occurs at the end of the millenial reign of Jesus.
Sheep to the right-goats left, etc.
This must actually be occuring within the Kingdom unless we have moved to another locale besides Earth for the judgement.
Soo... the goats are cast outside the Kingdom.

Does this work it out? Or not?

MR
 
U

UnchartedSpirit

New Member
Another thought (a little more random)
Instead of hierarchy, what if are rewards based on how big a mansion we get, thats all? I wouldn't mind a shed in Heaven
 
Marcia

Marcia

Active Member
Isn't it true that the word translated as "mansion" should really be dwelling place?

MANSION man'-shun (mone, "abode"): In Jn 14:2, the word is used in the plural: "In my Father's house are many mansions," the Revised Version margin "abiding places." The ideas conveyed are those of abundance of room, and permanence of habitation, in the heavenly world.
http://www.bible-history.com/isbe/M/MANSION/
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It does say "abundance of room" but the way we think of a mansion is a little different than the above, I think.

I think we will all certainly be equal in heaven, but maybe not enjoying it equally based on the rewards. One with greater reward may be enjoying it in a deeper way.
 
Marcia

Marcia

Active Member
Originally posted by UnchartedSpirit:
That would mean not everyone would be content, wouldn't it?
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Everyone will be content. It's just that possibly some will experience that in a deeper way. The more we enjoy Christ while here on earth, the greater a capacity we will have in heaven to enjoy Him there. These are just thoughts, not God's words.

We don't really know what the rewards are about.
 
G

GospelExplained.com

New Member
Mountainrun
Here's a thought...
The judgement occurs at the end of the millenial reign of Jesus.
Sheep to the right-goats left, etc.
This must actually be occuring within the Kingdom unless we have moved to another locale besides Earth for the judgement.
Soo... the goats are cast outside the Kingdom.

Does this work it out? Or not?
Click to expand...
Well no I don't think so.
Rev. 20:9 says that the unsaved born during the millenium being deceived by Satan are DEVOURED by fire on earth coming from heaven. The separation of sheep and goats occurs at the START of the millenium, because the sheep are THEN to inherit the kingdom. I suppose a kind of separation does occur at both the start and end of the millenium, but the first is really the separation into the millenial age, the second is a catastrophic devouring entering into the eternal state. The two having both the same affect, are two very different events. Following after the devouring fire the Great White Throne judgement occurs. God's people have already have received their inheritance at the start of the millenium.

As stated earlier, being able to identify and distinguish between events in relation to Scripture prophecy is very helpful to our understanding.
 
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