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All Israel will be Saved: Romans 11:26
- Thread starter asterisktom
- Start date
RAdam,
Please point out exactly the "conclusion" you have in mind.
Is it the fact that Christians are destined to make Israel "Jealous"?
Is it the point I made about the Chiasm embracing Isa.60 and Rev.21?
Is it the matter of when the Sheep and Goat nations will be separated?
Or about the Gentiles being found "disobedient" as an Endtime condition?
I could name a few more points...such as the remark on Sodom and "Kept Alive".
Mel
Please point out exactly the "conclusion" you have in mind.
Is it the fact that Christians are destined to make Israel "Jealous"?
Is it the point I made about the Chiasm embracing Isa.60 and Rev.21?
Is it the matter of when the Sheep and Goat nations will be separated?
Or about the Gentiles being found "disobedient" as an Endtime condition?
I could name a few more points...such as the remark on Sodom and "Kept Alive".
Mel
The part about Christians making Israel jealous, you must be referencing Paul quoting Deutoronomy 32 in Romans 10. That has already been fulfilled. Paul said, "did not Israel know?" He didn't say will not, he said did not.
I want to know from the context of Romans 11, or I'll even throw in chapters 9 and 10 since they all go together, where one can come to the conclusion you have about "all Israel shall be saved."
Lastday
RAdam,
You ask:
broadens to the include the "deliverance" of Israel as a nation. The hope changes from individual salvation to national "deliverance"!
The deliverance must wait until God removes the "blindness" imposed by Him for Israel's disobedience. That blindness will not be removed until the entire nation has been "purged, purified and refined...via the greatest tribulation in history that will last for 1260 days"...with 30 days "cut short" from 1290. Dan.12:1-11. A vital element in making the entire nation "jealous", after they see Christians willing to die for their faith, rests upon their realization that Messiah rescues the Christians on the Lastday; but, despite their mourning and being rescued to escape death, they will still be "left behind"
after Christ appears with all those Believers whom they see coming with their Messiah!!
A more important factor for the End of the Age timing for Israel's Deliverance
is God's purpose to show "mercy to mankind" after the Gentiles are declared
"disobedient". Rom.11:30-33. God will first "completely shut up" (#4788) all Gentiles by and within their state of unbelief and disobedience that He might show mercy" to all mankind...both the nation of Israel and the nations of the world. His declared purpose of extending mercy to all follows the Redemption of Israel...so that "all mankind will know the Lord, from the least to the greatest...when the New Covenant takes effect for Israel as a NATION"!!! Jer.31:31-34; Heb.8:8-13.
RAdam,
You ask:
In Rom.10, Paul is concerned about the salvation of Individual Jews. So the question of making individuals "jealous" was a personal matter. His desire in Rom.11:11
broadens to the include the "deliverance" of Israel as a nation. The hope changes from individual salvation to national "deliverance"!
The deliverance must wait until God removes the "blindness" imposed by Him for Israel's disobedience. That blindness will not be removed until the entire nation has been "purged, purified and refined...via the greatest tribulation in history that will last for 1260 days"...with 30 days "cut short" from 1290. Dan.12:1-11. A vital element in making the entire nation "jealous", after they see Christians willing to die for their faith, rests upon their realization that Messiah rescues the Christians on the Lastday; but, despite their mourning and being rescued to escape death, they will still be "left behind"
after Christ appears with all those Believers whom they see coming with their Messiah!!
A more important factor for the End of the Age timing for Israel's Deliverance
is God's purpose to show "mercy to mankind" after the Gentiles are declared
"disobedient". Rom.11:30-33. God will first "completely shut up" (#4788) all Gentiles by and within their state of unbelief and disobedience that He might show mercy" to all mankind...both the nation of Israel and the nations of the world. His declared purpose of extending mercy to all follows the Redemption of Israel...so that "all mankind will know the Lord, from the least to the greatest...when the New Covenant takes effect for Israel as a NATION"!!! Jer.31:31-34; Heb.8:8-13.
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psalms109:31
Active Member
2 Corinthians 3:
13We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to keep the Israelites from gazing at it while the radiance was fading away. 14But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away.15Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. 16But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.
Romans 2:
28A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. 29No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man's praise is not from men, but from God.
13We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to keep the Israelites from gazing at it while the radiance was fading away. 14But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away.15Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. 16But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.
Romans 2:
28A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. 29No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man's praise is not from men, but from God.
psalms109:31
Active Member
Anyone, not everyone
2 Corinthians 3:
13We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to keep the Israelites from gazing at it while the radiance was fading away. 14But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away.15Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. 16But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away
2 Corinthians 3:
13We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to keep the Israelites from gazing at it while the radiance was fading away. 14But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away.15Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. 16But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away
psalms109:31
Active Member
Inwardly
All Israel the one's on the inside will be save not outwardly, those who turn to Christ for salvation individual or all who turn to Christ at the time you speak of will be saved and we Gentiles are included with them when we hear the Gospel of our salvation having believed.
Romans 11:
17If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in." 20Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.
22Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. 23And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!
All Israel the one's on the inside will be save not outwardly, those who turn to Christ for salvation individual or all who turn to Christ at the time you speak of will be saved and we Gentiles are included with them when we hear the Gospel of our salvation having believed.
Romans 11:
17If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in." 20Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.
22Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. 23And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!
psalms109:31
Active Member
All of Israel
Romans 2:
28A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. 29No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man's praise is not from men, but from God.
All of Israel to me is the one's who are one inwardly not one outwardly.
How can they be grafted back in if they persist in their unbelief. Well they are blinded how can they not persist in unbelief. Simple by turning to Christ anyone includes Jews.
It could be all of Israel like you say, but to me it is must likely the above
Romans 2:
28A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. 29No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man's praise is not from men, but from God.
All of Israel to me is the one's who are one inwardly not one outwardly.
How can they be grafted back in if they persist in their unbelief. Well they are blinded how can they not persist in unbelief. Simple by turning to Christ anyone includes Jews.
It could be all of Israel like you say, but to me it is must likely the above
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psalms109:31
Active Member
Turn to Christ
If they all as a nation turn to Christ then they will be inwardly a Jew and on the way to salvation, but on the other hand if any don't turn to Christ they are not a Jew inwardly and still blinded.
If they all as a nation turn to Christ then they will be inwardly a Jew and on the way to salvation, but on the other hand if any don't turn to Christ they are not a Jew inwardly and still blinded.
psalms109:31:
You miss the point of Rom.11 because Israel as a nation cannot be Jews "inwardly"!
Their "blindness" nationally will not be removed until they "see their Messiah coming!!
You keep confusing their salvation as Individuals with their Deliverance as a Nation!!!
Mel
You miss the point of Rom.11 because Israel as a nation cannot be Jews "inwardly"!
Their "blindness" nationally will not be removed until they "see their Messiah coming!!
You keep confusing their salvation as Individuals with their Deliverance as a Nation!!!
Mel
psalms109:31
Active Member
Blind
They will remain blind and not be a Jew inwardly until they turn to Jesus. It is Jesus that changes us being a nation or an individual. You can see the messiah coming and not turn to Him to be saved.
If they all as a nation do praise God, if any don't they will not be saved.
One verse can totally mess up every word that comes from God. If we live we live not by little pieces of bread, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.
I am not confusing anything. They blindness will remain until they turn to Christ.
The one's who are a nation is those who are a Jew inwardly not outwardly. The nation are Jews and gentiles who are changes inwardly, not outwardly and the gentiles are not treated any differently.
Exodus 12:48 "An alien living among you who wants to celebrate the LORD's Passover must have all the males in his household circumcised; then he may take part like one born in the land. No uncircumcised male may eat of it. 49 The same law applies to the native-born and to the alien living among you."
50 All the Israelites did just what the LORD had commanded Moses and Aaron. 51 And on that very day the LORD brought the Israelites out of Egypt by their divisions.
Romans 2:
28A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. 29No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man's praise is not from men, but from God.
They will remain blind and not be a Jew inwardly until they turn to Jesus. It is Jesus that changes us being a nation or an individual. You can see the messiah coming and not turn to Him to be saved.
If they all as a nation do praise God, if any don't they will not be saved.
One verse can totally mess up every word that comes from God. If we live we live not by little pieces of bread, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.
I am not confusing anything. They blindness will remain until they turn to Christ.
The one's who are a nation is those who are a Jew inwardly not outwardly. The nation are Jews and gentiles who are changes inwardly, not outwardly and the gentiles are not treated any differently.
Exodus 12:48 "An alien living among you who wants to celebrate the LORD's Passover must have all the males in his household circumcised; then he may take part like one born in the land. No uncircumcised male may eat of it. 49 The same law applies to the native-born and to the alien living among you."
50 All the Israelites did just what the LORD had commanded Moses and Aaron. 51 And on that very day the LORD brought the Israelites out of Egypt by their divisions.
Romans 2:
28A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. 29No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man's praise is not from men, but from God.
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psalms109:31
Active Member
Not
If any does not turn to Christ they will remain blinded. Only those who are in the inside Jew is Israel. Only in Christ will the veil be removed.
I agree with the verse you give, but i can not deny the other verses either.
If any does not turn to Christ they will remain blinded. Only those who are in the inside Jew is Israel. Only in Christ will the veil be removed.
I agree with the verse you give, but i can not deny the other verses either.
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psalms109:31:
You're doing just fine!
Keep up your studies!!
We will not deny truth!!!
Tom
OK ... just having fun with Mel. But seriously, I believe that God is in control. And that is an awesome truth that brings much peace.
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psalms109:31
Active Member
You to
Keep your study to we are always a child to God with much to learn. His people are those who are in Christ. Jew and Gentile there is no difference.
Keep your study to we are always a child to God with much to learn. His people are those who are in Christ. Jew and Gentile there is no difference.