All Men? Really?

[Rippon]

The KJV uses antiquated language such as the above. But this thread has nothing to do with the Bible versions forum. I will quote from the NIV because it is plain-speaking. I will ask each of you to evaluate if, in these passages, the object is everyone who has and shall live --or a limited number of people.

I will give some snips --the entire verse is not necessary to convey what I am dealing with. Let's go to the Gospels first.

Matt. 10:22: You will be hated by everyone because of me...
Matt. 21:26 : ...we are afraid of the people, for they they all hold that John was a prophet.
Matt. 26:33 : ...even if all fall away on account of you, I never will.

Mark 1:37 : ...Everyone is looking for you!
Mark 5:20 : ... And all the people were amazed.
Mark 13:13 : Everyone will hate you because of me...

Luke 3:15 : ... were all wondering in their hearts if John might possibly be the Messiah
Luke 6:26 : Woe to you when everyone speaks well of you...
Luke 21:17 : Everyone will hate you because of me.

John 1:7 : ...so that through him all might believe.
John 3:26 : ...everyone is going to him.

 

[Rippon]

Acts

4:21 : ...all the people were praising God for what had happened.
21:28 : ...This is the man who teaches everyone everywhere against our people and our law and this place...

Romans

12:17 : ...Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everyone.
12:18 : ...live at peace with everyone.
16:19 : ...Everyone has heard about your obedience...

 

[Rippon]

I Cor.

9:22 : ...I have become all things to all people...
10:33 : even as I try to please everyone in every way...

2 Cor.

3:2 : ...known and read by everyone.
9:13 : ...for your generosity in sharing with them and with everyone else.

Phil.

4:5 : Let your gentleness be evident to all.

 

[Protestant]

Acts

4:21 : ...all the people were praising God for what had happened.
21:28 : ...This is the man who teaches everyone everywhere against our people and our law and this place...

Romans

12:17 : ...Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everyone.
12:18 : ...live at peace with everyone.
16:19 : ...Everyone has heard about your obedience...

I know the thread of which you speak, as well as the member who uses this nonsensical argument.

Though he so loves to hear the sound of his own voice pontificate, the more he speaks, the more his foot gets in the way of his ‘genius.’

 

[Rippon]

1 Thess.

2:15 : ...They displease God and are hostile to everyone.
3:12 : ...and for everyone else...
5:14 : ...be patient with everyone.
5:15 : ...always strive to do what is good for each other and for everyone else.

 

[Alcott]

Some of these are examples I've used before to show that no one is an absolute literalist.

Part of this, though, has to be the English language. Like 3 words are all translated "love" in modern translations, while the Greek words have fine distinctions, it's a similar problem with "all." Some languages [I've heard; I don't speak them] have different pronouns for 'everybody.' They can mean "everyone present," "everyone in a particular group or scope," "everyone everywhere," or more possibilities, such as "everyone not present." In English "everybody" is indefinite.. "Say 'hello' to everybody for me,"... "Mom, Billy's calling everybody a *%\^&!"... "Why is everybody in California a pinko?" It's just not taken to be literally everybody.

 

[Rippon]

I will not get into 1 Tim. 2 section at this point.

2 Tim.

2:24 : ...must be kind to everyone...
4:16 : ...everyone deserted me...

Titus

2:11 : For the grace of God has appeared ... to all people.
3:2 : ...be gentle towards everyone.

Col.

1:23 : ... This is the gospel that you have heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven...

 

[Rippon]

Hebrews

12:14 : Make every effort to live in peace with everyone...

1 Peter

2:17 : Show proper respect to everyone...

3 John

12 : Demetrius is well spoken of by everyone...

 

[Jerome]

Romans

12:17 : ...Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everyone.
12:18 : ...live at peace with everyone.
16:19 : ...Everyone has heard about your obedience...

Now, now, don't forget the all of Romans 3:23-24 in the plain speakin' NIV:

for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

 

[robustheologian]

Good stuff Rippon

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Thanks Rippon.

 

[steaver]

The KJV uses antiquated language such as the above. But this thread has nothing to do with the Bible versions forum. I will quote from the NIV because it is plain-speaking. I will ask each of you to evaluate if, in these passages, the object is everyone who has and shall live --or a limited number of people.

I will give some snips --the entire verse is not necessary to convey what I am dealing with. Let's go to the Gospels first.

Matt. 10:22: You will be hated by everyone because of me...
Matt. 21:26 : ...we are afraid of the people, for they they all hold that John was a prophet.
Matt. 26:33 : ...even if all fall away on account of you, I never will.

Mark 1:37 : ...Everyone is looking for you!
Mark 5:20 : ... And all the people were amazed.
Mark 13:13 : Everyone will hate you because of me...

Luke 3:15 : ... were all wondering in their hearts if John might possibly be the Messiah
Luke 6:26 : Woe to you when everyone speaks well of you...
Luke 21:17 : Everyone will hate you because of me.

John 1:7 : ...so that through him all might believe.
John 3:26 : ...everyone is going to him.

Could go either way depending on context. As always, one must seek God and pray the Holy Spirit bring them understanding. I often wonder how many Christians actually seek the Holy Spirit's understanding of what has been written for us, and how many Christian's try to just analyze the Word without prayer and seeking the Spirit to give understanding. I know everyone will say they prayed and sought, but I wonder how many really did.

Study of the Word of God without a fervent seeking of the Holy Spirit's conviction will lead to many errors. The Spirit must agree with the interpretation of the Word being proposed. It is not wise nor profitable to base one's conclusions on proof texting. The Spirit's conviction must be sought and followed.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Could go either way depending on context. As always, one must seek God and pray the Holy Spirit bring them understanding. I often wonder how many Christians actually seek the Holy Spirit's understanding of what has been written for us, and how many Christian's try to just analyze the Word without prayer and seeking the Spirit to give understanding. I know everyone will say they prayed and sought, but I wonder how many really did.

Study of the Word of God without a fervent seeking of the Holy Spirit's conviction will lead to many errors. The Spirit must agree with the interpretation of the Word being proposed. It is not wise nor profitable to base one's conclusions on proof texting. The Spirit's conviction must be sought and followed.

So do you pray to the HS to provide clarity to your reading & understanding prior to bible study....personally, I make it a "must do" before I open The Book.

 

[Rippon]

Steaver, you quoted a post of mine with snips of eleven verses. Not a single one of those texts are universal. They are not addressing absolutes.

Those references are on the order of :"Everyone is going to Mama's Restaurant tonight."

In none of the passages can it possibly refer to each and every person past, present and future. It's not rocket science. It's as plain as day --accept it.

 

[Rippon]

John 12:32
And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.

Acts 2:17
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.

Acts 14:16
In the past, he let all nations go their own way.

 

[steaver]

So do you pray to the HS to provide clarity to your reading & understanding prior to bible study....personally, I make it a "must do" before I open The Book.

I believe that should be obvious since I am the one who brought it up. :tongue3:

 

[steaver]

Steaver, you quoted a post of mine with snips of eleven verses. Not a single one of those texts are universal. They are not addressing absolutes.

Those references are on the order of :"Everyone is going to Mama's Restaurant tonight."

In none of the passages can it possibly refer to each and every person past, present and future. It's not rocket science. It's as plain as day --accept it.

I already said it depends on the context. I'm not sure who doesn't accept that.

 

[steaver]

John 12:32
And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.

Acts 2:17
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.

Acts 14:16
In the past, he let all nations go their own way.

These are good examples of the Holy Spirit's omnipresence. Always working in all places at all times.

 

[BobRyan]

Now, now, don't forget the all of Romans 3:23-24 in the plain speakin' NIV:

for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

It only means "all" when Calvinism says it is ok?

 

[BobRyan]

John 12:32
And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.

I guess the question is - who is going to limit Christ? Calvin?