All Southern Baptist Leaders Affirm Greear's Statement on George Floyd Death

[Steven Yeadon]

Something is weird about the entire thing. If he couldnt breathe due to being choked, he could not talk either. The officers handled the situation terribly. Cause of death was not asphyxiation. Nothing adds up. The officers knee was obviously not choking him. I really dont know why they kept him on the ground. I never left handcuffed people on the ground because our county was involved in a hog tying death when I was still in the academy. It made me paranoid. When I worked the road, I was 275 lbs, solid, and was not scared to go toe to toe with anyone. These little pip squeak officers were definitely scared. I saw being able to bench 475 lbs as part of the job.
I rarely had to fight anyone that was not high on something or was not wanted or in the process of committing a very serious crime. You can talk 99% of people into the car without using any force.

This makes sense of things.

George Floyd told police he was struggling to breathe before he was restrained

Mr. Floyd had pulmonary issues. He was resisting handcuffing, became compliant when handcuffed, resisted being put in a car. He was then put on his stomach and was keeled on, for what reason is hard to understand. He had no pulse for three minutes and CNN says no attempt at resuscitation was done by even the paramedics.

This is just surreal. Hard not to read malice into this. Yeah forcible restraint can kill those with underlying conditions like a bad heart.

IMO a jury may even convict the bunch on 2nd degree murder for kneeling on a dead man for 3 minutes and refusing CPR as first responders.

 

[Reynolds]

So what you are saying - that maneuver is acceptable under extreme conditions.

Any guesses what will happen the other 3 officers?

Its an old school technique that to my knowledge is no longer taught in most places. All neck restraint holds are now frowned upon. I am guessing the hold was in violation of his department SOP, but do not know that. If not, his dept has a very out dated SOP. I have no idea what the outcome for any of the officers will be. My big question is why did the officer continue to restrain him for so long. I dont think the restraint killed him, it just looks bad. I believe the perp would have died laying there handcuffed with no one touching him. He most likely began cardiac arrest during the active struggle.

 

[Calminian]

I am telling you what his defense will be. He did not have his knee in his neck choking him.

Yes he did. Just because a choke isn't successful doesn't mean choking never took place.

He had his knee bridging his neck restraining him.

I would imagine choking with one's knee retains quite effectively.

IMO it was improper, but not a deliberate choke. Not much weight either.

You have no idea how much weight was being applied.

Weight is on the foot. I was taught that restraint, but never used it outside the classroom and the gym.

If this was a standard proper way to restrain a facedown cuffed man, then what exactly was improper?

 

[Reynolds]

Yes he did. Just because a choke isn't successful doesn't mean choking never took place.



I would imagine choking with one's knee retains quite effectively.



You have no idea how much weight was being applied.



If this was a standard proper way to restrain a facedown cuffed man, then what exactly was improper?

You seem to have reading comprehension issues or honesty issues. I did not say it was standard procedure. I did not say it was proper procedure. I said the officer did not have all, or even much of, his weight on the throat/neck. You said he did have all his weight on the neck. Are you blind or are you lacking even a most basic understanding of physics? I am tired of you saying I say things I dont. That is dishonesty and lying.

 

[Calminian]

You seem to have reading comprehension issues or honesty issues. I did not say it was standard procedure. I did not say it was proper procedure. I said the officer did not have all, or even much of, his weight on the throat/neck. You said he did have all his weight on the neck. Are you blind or are you lacking even a most basic understanding of physics? I am tired of you saying I say things I dont. That is dishonesty and lying.

And you have communication issues. You claim to know how much weight was on Floyd's neck. I call BS.

And you seem hellbent on defending the indefensible. You call me a liar all you want. I'm still going to engage your pathetic defense of this cop.

 

[Reynolds]

And you have communication issues. You claim to know how much weight was on Floyd's neck. I call BS.

And you seem hellbent on defending the indefensible. You call me a liar all you want. I'm still going to engage your pathetic defense of this cop.

I am not defending his actions. I have simply stated the officer used poor judgment but had no intent to kill. I pointed out the autopsy results. I pointed out that your claim the officer placed all his weight on the neck was completely false. I pointed out what the officers defense team will claim. You turn that into me defending the officer.

 

[Calminian]

I am not defending his actions. I have simply stated the officer used poor judgment but had no intent to kill. I pointed out the autopsy results. I pointed out that your claim the officer placed all his weight on the neck was completely false. I pointed out what the officers defense team will claim. You turn that into me defending the officer.

I've said all this as well, without claiming to know what was in the officers mind. He may indeed only have wanted to put some serious hurt on the guy. He may have been a complete lunatic, letting his anger get to him, and not caring if the guy died or not. After all the guy pleaded for his life, and he didn't so much as blink. Ultimately we don't know, but I suspect the latter.

Bottomline, he killed the guy. It's his fault. He won't go down for 1st or likely 2nd degree. I believe, however, with that video evidence, he'll go down for the charges against him.

 

[Salty]

Lets get this post back on OP - how every SBC leader signed the statement

Do you think any of the leaders felt pressured to do so - and if they didnt...........

 

[Steven Yeadon]

Lets get this post back on OP - how every SBC leader signed the statement

Do you think any of the leaders felt pressured to do so - and if they didnt...........

Doesn't surprise me that everyone would sign onboard. The statement is very PC. The only parts that stands out to me are,

"The images and information we have available to us in this case are horrific and remind us that there is much more work to be done to ensure that there is not even a hint of racial inequity in the distribution of justice in our country."

Then you get told that black people are disproportionately prosecuted and incarcerated. Statistics that are true and go to prove the point. Though, the statement should explain things better, since it fails to define what is meant by, "racial inequity in the distribution of justice in our country." I had to go back to cable news explanations of what this means.

There is also this statement that may divide among evangelical Christians,

"Therefore, as a matter of Christian obedience and devotion, followers of Jesus Christ cannot remain silent when our brothers and sisters, friends and/or people we seek to win for Christ are mistreated, abused or killed unnecessarily."

This concerns me that it is by context talking about race, primarily, when I know for a fact, misuse of force happens to everyone, and is a much more general evil to fight.

Also, this statement swerves into the conversation about criminal justice and African Americans to stand with the Black Lives Matter movement, while saying nothing beyond what I would expect from a mainline denomination. This Baptist board has discussed the issues regarding racism in depth lately, and, honestly, there is much more to say in regards to defeating racism than in this statement. Just look at the recent threads.

This statement too will be forgotten, it says little that is powerful or poignant. Even though what we need to hear is for people to stand against and rebuke sin in all its forms, and embrace their savior Jesus Christ. Where is the Gospel in this statement? Is this statement meant to evangelize? If so, how, given it avoids the actual Gospel of Jesus Christ?

Truly a lost moment by the SBC to frame eveything biblically.

 

[Salty]

Doesn't surprise me that everyone would sign onboard. The statement is very PC.

I totally agree

Then you get told that black people are disproportionately prosecuted and incarcerated. Statistics that are true and go to prove the point.

OR are they.
Did you know that only 7% of all federal prisoners are female, yet they have over 50% of the population. Sounds like an extremly large disproportional prosecuted and incarcerated.

Federal Bureau of Prisons info

 

[Steven Yeadon]

I totally agree


OR are they.
Did you know that only 7% of all federal prisoners are female, yet they have over 50% of the population. Sounds like an extremly large disproportional prosecuted and incarcerated.

Federal Bureau of Prisons info

Thank you Salty. Very informative.

I wonder if that is anti-male bias. It is harder for us to look at a woman and see a monster than a man in this culture.

 

[carpro]

When people say this, it merely means I'm having trouble breathing. I've done this myself.

And the cause of death was likely not pure strangulation, and it's likely Mr. Floyd had some health problems. But all this is irrelevant. Police understand that everyone they deal with is not perfectly healthy. Some can handle more punishment than others. Mr. Floyd handled a lot, but eventually succumbed.

Floyd was complaining about not being able to breathe even while walking toward the police vehicle. He claimed he was claustrophobic when they started to put him in the vehicle, and then resisted getting in the car by falling to the ground.Even though the officers knee was on his neck, he was still able to raise his head and pivot it.

Reynolds is right. A lot just doesn't add up

The toxicology report may tell us what the real issue was.

Even then, to my mind, nothing can explain the length of time they kept him pinned to the ground. Even though he did not appear to be over weight, the risk of positional asphyxia is just too great unless he was still resisting, and that does not appear to be the case.

 

[carpro]

Lets get this post back on OP - how every SBC leader signed the statement

Do you think any of the leaders felt pressured to do so - and if they didnt...........

I believe they were just hitching their wagon to the PC horse. Didn't want to appear out of step..

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

I wonder if that is anti-male bias. It is harder for us to look at a woman and see a monster than a man in this culture.

On what basis would you wonder that? On some false idea that men and women are the same or involved the same way? Auto insurance companies certainly don’t think so.

While it is true that all are sinners, society does not consider every sin a crime punishable by incarceration.

But now you've got me wondering how many more prolific female serial killers are getting away with murder because they’re looking for a man, or no one.

 

[Yeshua1]

They are right. That some to date are still denying racism is abhorrent.

Racism exists among Blacks and White, correct?

 

[Yeshua1]

I believe they were just hitching their wagon to the PC horse. Didn't want to appear out of step..

The real enemy of black america not whites, but Satan and liberal agendas that push abortion and crime and poverty and family breakdowns on them!

 

[Scott Downey]

Floyd was complaining about not being able to breathe even while walking toward the police vehicle. He claimed he was claustrophobic when they started to put him in the vehicle, and then resisted getting in the car by falling to the ground.Even though the officers knee was on his neck, he was still able to raise his head and pivot it.

Reynolds is right. A lot just doesn't add up

The toxicology report may tell us what the real issue was.

Even then, to my mind, nothing can explain the length of time they kept him pinned to the ground. Even though he did not appear to be over weight, the risk of positional asphyxia is just too great unless he was still resisting, and that does not appear to be the case.

I think he was suffering a panic attack, if any of you have ever felt one, I have one time. In an extreme stressful condition, he died. All the things happening, the panic, stress on his heart, his health, his age, the arrest, they all together killed him. It is significant he was complaining of breathing problems when standing next to the car.

 

[Calminian]

This is all well and good. But are there any pastors willing to now stand up for the unjust treatment of police officers?

2019 was a record low for killing unarmed suspects. Just 10 blacks and 20 whites. Most killings were justified based on clear video evidence. There were convictions of police officers in the other instances. Police, however, are 18 times more likely to be killed by an african american, than an unarmed african american killed by a police officer.

Yet BLM and others groups are claiming genocide of african americans by police officers! This is a lie.

Standing up for Floyd's unjust killing was a good thing, but also safe and easy. Where are the pastors willing to take the hard stance for police officers? Where's that statement?

 

[Salty]

Standing up for Floyd's unjust killing was a good thing, but also safe and easy. Where are the pastors willing to take the hard stance for police officers? Where's that statement?

I realize that the "Unjust killing" has been proven in the court of public "PC" court,
but what happens when all the facts come out?

Before you say I am standing behind the cop - you would be incorrect - I am waiting on the third option - The actual truth of facts.

May I mention - the Charge that has been submitted - 2nd Degree murder- well some are demanding First Degree murder - well if he is tried on that - he would have to be found innocent!

 

[Calminian]

I realize that the "Unjust killing" has been proven in the court of public "PC" court,
but what happens when all the facts come out?

Before you say I am standing behind the cop - you would be incorrect - I am waiting on the third option - The actual truth of facts.

May I mention - the Charge that has been submitted - 2nd Degree murder- well some are demanding First Degree murder - well if he is tried on that - he would have to be found innocent!

I think you're missing what I'm saying. Police are being maligned and murdered over the action of one officer. They are many times more likely to be killed by a citizen, than an unarmed citizen is to be killed by them. Why not stand up also for blue lives?