Alligator Eats Boy: A Serious Warning for All Christians

[InTheLight]

Disney represents the well-beloved ‘Christian’ leaders who draw their power, authority and financial success from the masses who desire their ears to be tickled with preaching that compliments their unregenerate souls.

Disney's parks are resorts where people go to relax and get away from the stress and strain of everyday life.

Their churches are like resorts, comfortable and relaxing, where the stress and strain of a sinful life can be forgotten for a few hours.

What stress or strain? I thought, according to Calvinism, that these people are totally depraved, dead to God--they are walking corpses. How do corpses have stress and strain? They're DEAD!! Why would they want to escape sin? They are totally depraved and don't seek God! They think they are on the right path, they don't need a respite from it.

Both Disney and the false prophets refuse to warn their customers/patrons/congregants of the whole truth.

Instead of posting signs or preaching that which actually explains what the real issue is, they issue a lukewarm, non-inflammatory warning like ‘No Swimming’ or ‘God loves you so much, it will pain Him greatly if you choose against Christ and go to Hell.’

You seem to have an unending supply of strawmen. Name one preacher that preaches God will be offended and pained if a person doesn't choose Him.

The alligator represents our enemy, the Devil, seeking whom he may devour.

He does this by stealth, like the Papal Antichrist, who, as a tare sown among the wheat, does not openly declare war on Christ, but by doctrine and practice reveals His unmitigated hatred of Christ, His Father and true Christianity.

So alligators aren't simply doing what they do by nature, eat things made of meat, they actually hate humans and seek them out?!! They make war on humans!

Our cunning enemy is always on watch, though hidden from view of the general public, as well as ignorant unregenerate professing Christians. He is ever seeking the foolish and naïve.

I've got to believe that had the parents of this two year old been watching their child they would have seen a seven foot alligator swimming in less than a foot of water.

Your analogy fails.

 

[Adonia]

So the parents of this child are without fault because technically...their child wasn't swimming? "Your honor, the sign didn't say 'No Wading,' it just said no swimming."

Honestly, No Swimming means stay out of the water.

This is a tragedy, but lets not defer culpability. I don't live in Florida but I know there are alligators there, just like I know there are sharks in the oceans. I'm not going to let my kid go into water that has a sign that says no swimming and try to pass off the trespass on a technicality. My State has a lot of snakes, but not sure I have seen "There may be snakes in these waters" at any of the parks I use to go to, or in the lakes at parks.

It's the parents' responsibility to keep the child safe first and foremost, and perhaps their child would still be alive if they had simply obeyed the rules.

I don't see the park as responsible.


God bless.

You might not see the park as responsible, but I bet that a jury will. It probably won't get that far - Disney will settle so all the bad publicity goes away.

 

[Darrell C]

Neither the premise nor the conclusion are skewed or without strength.

It is only the minds of those whose spiritual discernment is skewed and without strength who fail to see the spiritual truths which this tragedy teaches.

For those, like Darrell and Mitchell, who cannot muster up the spiritual wherewithal to put 2 and 2 together, I will break it down for you:

Disney represents the well-beloved ‘Christian’ leaders who draw their power, authority and financial success from the masses who desire their ears to be tickled with preaching that compliments their unregenerate souls.

Their churches are like resorts, comfortable and relaxing, where the stress and strain of a sinful life can be forgotten for a few hours.

Both Disney and the false prophets refuse to warn their customers/patrons/congregants of the whole truth.

Instead of posting signs or preaching that which actually explains what the real issue is, they issue a lukewarm, non-inflammatory warning like ‘No Swimming’ or ‘God loves you so much, it will pain Him greatly if you choose against Christ and go to Hell.’

The alligator represents our enemy, the Devil, seeking whom he may devour.

He does this by stealth, like the Papal Antichrist, who, as a tare sown among the wheat, does not openly declare war on Christ, but by doctrine and practice reveals His unmitigated hatred of Christ, His Father and true Christianity.

Our cunning enemy is always on watch, though hidden from view of the general public, as well as ignorant unregenerate professing Christians. He is ever seeking the foolish and naïve.

The Lagoon represents the deadly waters of lying wonders and false doctrines which surround the false preachers.

The parents represent the unsuspecting unregenerate public who believe all is well with their souls and with the souls of their loved ones.

The child represents the ignorant unregenerate professing Christian who, lacking spiritual discernment and knowledge, ventures into the ill-fated waters of lies and heresies, which temporarily feel pleasant, giving a false sense of joy and well-being.

Scripture sums it up perfectly:

There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death (Proverbs 14:12; 16:25).

I have just a few problems with this kind of approach.

First, it is unclear as to who you are speaking about. You say there is an enemy in these false churches, but the ones who go to churches that teach false doctrine will look at your OP and agree, except they would likely find your church a false church and you a false teacher if they knew what you believed.

Second, you will likely throw doubt into the hearts of those who go to church, causing them to wonder if their own church is like this, and because babes in Christ are still going to be more inclined to have an improper view of Scripture, they may cater to thoughts that may not be reality. So you are just as likely to encourage a babe to leave a Bible believing and teaching church because you have given them justification for catering their own feelings, which may not be mature, thus removing them from leadership which can help them mature.

Third, you tie Disney in as a villain, as though it is sinful to take kids to an amusement park. Why not just use the true villains...the false teachers themselves, and address the false doctrine, instead of making it personal. You know that there are no Christians that work for Disney?

Fourth, the idea that "No Swimming" is not a clear enough warning is absurd. This is like saying "You shall do no murder" is vague and should be amended to cover the many various ways murder can be accomplished. In fact, "You shall do no murder" did not come with "If you hate your brother without a cause you are guilty of Murder," just as "No Swimming" didn't come with "you may be eaten of Alligators" or "You might drown!" "You might get a bacterial infection!" When I was a kid, "No Swimming" was just as clear a warning/directive as "You shall do no murder" is about killing people.

Lastly, you imply that finding the right church is the answer. As though a believer's sanctification relies only on being lucky enough to have been saved in the right church fellowship. That's absurd. Many people sit in great fellowships with great preaching and great teaching...and they do not mature at all. Thirty years later they are still as ignorant of Scripture as they were six months in.

It is a sad fact that there are many fellowships where Doctrine is not just questionable, but in error. That doesn't mean that God cannot carry out His will for those who are truly saved. But because those led of God usually invest more in their relationship than the average pew warmer, there will come, I believe, a day in which they will understand what is wrong, or what is right...with where they attend.

As I said, the post was not bad, with the exception of using Disney in the analogy. Again, I see no fault in their sign, and again point out the lack of culpability given to the parents. This sends the underlying message there is nothing wrong with ignoring the rules, which stands in direct contradiction to the point you are trying to make, which, again, I agree with.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

You might not see the park as responsible, but I bet that a jury will. It probably won't get that far - Disney will settle so all the bad publicity goes away.

Haven't you already convicted them yourself?

In this day and age, most companies have to settle out of court for the lame-brained lawsuits that arise. Take the Gorilla incident, the park shoots the animal...and are still held as the villain, and the parents culpability unmentioned. If they had tried to sedate the animal, and the gorilla had killed the child...they would have been the villain.

Its a no-win situation when dealing with people who refuse to take responsibility for their own failure in situations like these.

That is modern America. Going to "make it big" by either winning the lottery of falling into a plush lawsuit, which in their minds is a lottery as well.


God bless.

 

[Adonia]

Court?

Haven't you already convicted them yourself?

In this day and age, most companies have to settle out of court for the lame-brained lawsuits that arise. Take the Gorilla incident, the park shoots the animal...and are still held as the villain, and the parents culpability unmentioned. If they had tried to sedate the animal, and the gorilla had killed the child...they would have been the villain.

Its a no-win situation when dealing with people who refuse to take responsibility for their own failure in situations like these.

That is modern America. Going to "make it big" by either winning the lottery of falling into a plush lawsuit, which in their minds is a lottery as well.


God bless.

No, I have not already convicted them and I agree there should be some responsibility on the parents part, but I am just saying what is going to happen as we have seen this type of thing play out time and time again. Just imagine if there was a trial and the plaintiff's lawyer has the 18 year old groundskeeper on the stand. Lawyer: "Did you ever see alligators in this pond as you were working in that area"? Groundskeeper: "Yes. It was common knowledge that alligators were living in the pond".

And of course we know that there were no alligator warning signs in the immediate area. It will be an easy case for the plaintiffs to prove and Disney knows it. There will be a settlement, now it's only a matter of deciding how much it will be.

 

[InTheLight]

And of course we know that there were no alligator warning signs in the immediate area. It will be an easy case for the plaintiffs to prove and Disney knows it. There will be a settlement, now it's only a matter of deciding how much it will be.

I agree with you. The only question will be if we will hear about the settlement. I'd guess Disney would make the parents sign non-disclosure documents upon payment.

 

[utilyan]

Incredibly, another horrific incident has occurred involving a small boy, but this time with deadly consequences. Suddenly, an alligator snatched the child while he was playing in 12 inches of water at the Disney Grand Floridian Resort & Spa’s Seven Seas Lagoon in Orlando.

The only warning given the Nebraska family were signs stating, ‘No Swimming.’

Had there been signs explaining the reason – No Swimming Due to Alligators – no sane parent would have allowed their child in the water.

For that matter, no sane vacationer would have casually relaxed on the man-made beach knowing alligators have legs and can run 20 mph.

Here we have another spiritual lesson: naiveté and ignorance can be eternally deadly to the soul when seduced into a false sense of security.

Satan’s ministers do not come waving warning signs which state, “Beware Wolf in Sheep’s Clothing.”

In fact, like the Germans in WW II who dressed as Polish soldiers in order to take the Poles by surprise, Satan’s ministers pose as bona fide Christians, carrying credentials from their seminaries and denominations which seduce the naïve and ignorant into believing their every word.

A prime example of such a deceiver in our day is Joel Osteen.

Prior to Joel’s rise to power, the Rev. Dr. Billy Graham held the title of ‘Grand Deceiver,’ as he led untold millions into believing the Pope and Roman Catholic Church are of God, and are to be honored as such.

Like the cunning alligator who snatches unwary victims, Satan’s false prophets are those whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord (Jude 1:4 NIV).

May God grant the reader the full armor of God by which Christians can discern, disarm and expose the evil among us.

Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them (Ephesians 5:11 ESV).

I never heard Joel Osteen say anything bad about you.


Folks who accuse others, Accusers of brethren. There is a reason Satan is called Accuser.

Anyone who relies so much on accusing others of evil has no faith in the example to follow set forth by God.

What sort of person entertains themselves with a child's life and suffering of others? And then sees it as a opportunity to vilify others?

That's pathetic.

I bet you can't name one living person who has better understanding of Christianity then you do.

Cause its pretty easy to accuse others of being ugly with a bag over your head.

 

[Darrell C]

No, I have not already convicted them and I agree there should be some responsibility on the parents part, but I am just saying what is going to happen as we have seen this type of thing play out time and time again. Just imagine if there was a trial and the plaintiff's lawyer has the 18 year old groundskeeper on the stand. Lawyer: "Did you ever see alligators in this pond as you were working in that area"? Groundskeeper: "Yes. It was common knowledge that alligators were living in the pond".

For Pete's sake...its Florida.

If you took a trip to Alaska, can you think of any creature that you might be worried about running into?

And of course we know that there were no alligator warning signs in the immediate area. It will be an easy case for the plaintiffs to prove and Disney knows it. There will be a settlement, now it's only a matter of deciding how much it will be.

Okay, I give up. Your right, Disney should be as diligent as those who make frozen pizzas, who put "Do not eat Pizza frozen" right on the box.




God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Folks who accuse others, Accusers of brethren. There is a reason Satan is called Accuser.

So Peter is an accuser too, right?


Acts 8:20-22

King James Version (KJV)


20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.

21 Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.

22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.


And Paul?


2 Timothy 4:14

King James Version (KJV)


14 Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works:



Joel Olsteen is not my brother.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

So alligators aren't simply doing what they do by nature, eat things made of meat, they actually hate humans and seek them out?!! They make war on humans!

How much you want to bet that if someone had pulled out a fully licensed concealed weapon, and shot the alligator...there would be an uproar from the animal rights groups and a call from the President to create stricter gun laws?




God bless.

 

[utilyan]

So Peter is an accuser too, right?


Acts 8:20-22

King James Version (KJV)


20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.

21 Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.

22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.


And Paul?


2 Timothy 4:14

King James Version (KJV)


14 Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works:



Joel Olsteen is not my brother.


God bless.

That ain't nothing Darrell. Jesus calls Pharisees a brood of vipers.

Joel Osteen is a brother. South Baptist ordained.


Let me paste "what they believe" :

https://www.joelosteen.com/Pages/WhatWeBelieve.aspx

======
…the entire Bible is inspired by God, without error and the authority on which we base our faith, conduct and doctrine.
…in one God who exists in three distinct persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. We believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God who came to this earth as Savior of the world.
…Jesus died on the cross and shed His blood for our sins. We believe that salvation is found by placing our faith in what Jesus did for us on the cross. We believe Jesus rose from the dead and is coming again.
…water baptism is a symbol of the cleansing power of the blood of Christ and a testimony to our faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.
…in the regular taking of Communion as an act of remembering what the Lord Jesus did for us on the cross.
…every believer should be in a growing relationship with Jesus by obeying God’s Word, yielding to the Holy Spirit and by being conformed to the image of Christ.
…as children of God, we are overcomers and more than conquerors and God intends for each of us to experience the abundant life He has in store for us.

======



I don't see what you guys see wrong with him.

Look he got everything from the bible they say:
"…the entire Bible is inspired by God, without error and the authority on which we base our faith, conduct and doctrine."

That means he doesn't need your help, right?

 

[Darrell C]

That ain't nothing Darrell. Jesus calls Pharisees a brood of vipers.

Joel Osteen is a brother. South Baptist ordained.


Let me paste "what they believe" :

https://www.joelosteen.com/Pages/WhatWeBelieve.aspx

======
…the entire Bible is inspired by God, without error and the authority on which we base our faith, conduct and doctrine.
…in one God who exists in three distinct persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. We believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God who came to this earth as Savior of the world.
…Jesus died on the cross and shed His blood for our sins. We believe that salvation is found by placing our faith in what Jesus did for us on the cross. We believe Jesus rose from the dead and is coming again.
…water baptism is a symbol of the cleansing power of the blood of Christ and a testimony to our faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.
…in the regular taking of Communion as an act of remembering what the Lord Jesus did for us on the cross.
…every believer should be in a growing relationship with Jesus by obeying God’s Word, yielding to the Holy Spirit and by being conformed to the image of Christ.
…as children of God, we are overcomers and more than conquerors and God intends for each of us to experience the abundant life He has in store for us.

======



I don't see what you guys see wrong with him.

Look he got everything from the bible they say:
"…the entire Bible is inspired by God, without error and the authority on which we base our faith, conduct and doctrine."

That means he doesn't need your help, right?

They forgot one of their beliefs in their statement:


Receive message #692, Just Obey, for your investment into this ministry. Our hope is that you see God do more in you and through you than you ever dreamed possible!


$125.00


$75.00


$50.00


$25.00


$ Other


Great, he's your brother.

Not mine.

It looks like he does need my help to keep his prosperity preaching afloat.

While the statement of faith might be in line with Scripture, that doesn't mean his preaching is. Even Satan quoted Scripture, and sought to use it for his own profit.


God bless.

 

[JonC]

And of course we know that there were no alligator warning signs in the immediate area. It will be an easy case for the plaintiffs to prove and Disney knows it. There will be a settlement, now it's only a matter of deciding how much it will be.

I stayed at the Shades of Green the week prior to this tragic event. I find it interesting that we were across the street from the Floridian and the Polynesian. We took the tram to the Polynesian and walked across the road on a path, by a large pond, to our hotel. The first thing we noticed were signs cautioning about alligators in the ponds. Looking at mapquest, this body of water is about 600 feet from the Seven Seas lagoon (it was less than a five minute walk on the path).

 

[JonC]

That ain't nothing Darrell. Jesus calls Pharisees a brood of vipers.

Joel Osteen is a brother. ......


I don't see what you guys see wrong with him.

Look he got everything from the bible they say:
"…the entire Bible is inspired by God, without error and the authority on which we base our faith, conduct and doctrine."

That means he doesn't need your help, right?

I think that most here do not care so much about what Joel Osteen believes but are instead objecting to what he teaches. Regardless of his beliefs, and regardless of the legitimacy of his salvation, the man teaches false doctrine and this false doctrine has crept into churches and into the lives of Christians.

I praise God that people may have been reached with the gospel message through Osteen's speaking. But this has much more to do with God than it does with Osteen. He is a false teacher and should be treated as such (whether he is a brother, I do not know).

 

[utilyan]

They forgot one of their beliefs in their statement:


Receive message #692, Just Obey, for your investment into this ministry. Our hope is that you see God do more in you and through you than you ever dreamed possible!


$125.00


$75.00


$50.00


$25.00


$ Other


Great, he's your brother.

Not mine.

It looks like he does need my help to keep his prosperity preaching afloat.

While the statement of faith might be in line with Scripture, that doesn't mean his preaching is. Even Satan quoted Scripture, and sought to use it for his own profit.


God bless.

Hey one of our church supervisors was a thief who later killed the boss who picked him out.

I guess the guy who picked him out was an idiot and everything that church stands for is wrong right?

Still it happened with Jesus and Judas. What was Jesus needing money for anyways?


"While the statement of faith might be in line with Scripture, that doesn't mean his preaching is."

This statement right here you made is the one in need of most contemplation.^

Faith Alone is FAITH ALONE you are saying his preaching puts him and others in jeopardy?

Maybe he believes he doesn't have to do anything right so long as he has faith alone in Christ.

Lets assume he knows what he does is wrong, when do you tell him?

Lets a assume he thinks he is right, When do you let him know he needs YOU, Pope Darrell to look over his shoulder to translate the scripture?



Jesus states if there is fault between people the steps to correct it.


He has a store that sells DVDs, big deal. I didn't see him sell half his church to Calvinists

 

[utilyan]

I think that most here do not care so much about what Joel Osteen believes but are instead objecting to what he teaches. Regardless of his beliefs, and regardless of the legitimacy of his salvation, the man teaches false doctrine and this false doctrine has crept into churches and into the lives of Christians.

I praise God that people may have been reached with the gospel message through Osteen's speaking. But this has much more to do with God than it does with Osteen. He is a false teacher and should be treated as such (whether he is a brother, I do not know).

That's pretty blank. I can say you teach many many evil things. But never going around to mention specifically what.


He and his congregation seemed pretty happy. At least I don't hear them whining about what you guys doing wrong.


So what if you teach false doctrine? Teaching right doctrine is a good work that won't save you.

Faith Alone is FAITH ALONE.

 

[JonC]

That's pretty blank. I can say you teach many many evil things. But never going around to mention specifically what.


He and his congregation seemed pretty happy. At least I don't hear them whining about what you guys doing wrong.


So what if you teach false doctrine? Teaching right doctrine is a good work that won't save you.

Faith Alone is FAITH ALONE.

Yes. It is. Beyond my responsibility, I am not a "name names" type guy. If you believe the "prosperity gospel" to be the true gospel of Christ, then start a thread for discussion. If you agree with Osteen that there may be ways apart from Christ by which men are saved, then start another thread for discussion. If you think Christians are made for material success in this life, again start a thread and discuss it. If not, then why Osteen?

 

[rsr]

Joel Osteen is a brother. South Baptist ordained.

No. His father was ordained as a Southern Baptist, but Lakewood is an independent, nondenominational church, and it was Lakewood that ordained Joel. Baptists have plenty to answer for, but Joel is not among the litany.

 

[Salty]

No. His father was ordained as a Southern Baptist, but Lakewood is an independent, nondenominational church, and it was Lakewood that ordained Joel. Baptists have plenty to answer for, but Joel is not among the litany.

To be more specific - John Osteen was ordained by a SBC local church. The SBC does NOT ordain ministers. Usually, pastors from sisters will sit in council and RECOMMEND that church ordain (or not to ordain) Since, the SBC does not ordain - neither can they defrock a pastor. With regard to a church, the most the SBC, State Convention and /or local Association is able to do is to withdraw fellowship form the SBC.

One other thing about Lakewood church, it was founded as LAKEWOOD BAPTIST ChurchL, but soon later on the church voted to change its name to Lakewood Church as it fully went Pentecostal.

 

[Darrell C]

Hey one of our church supervisors was a thief who later killed the boss who picked him out.

I guess the guy who picked him out was an idiot and everything that church stands for is wrong right?

How is that relevant to a prosperity preacher?

Still it happened with Jesus and Judas. What was Jesus needing money for anyways?

It wasn't to buy himself a 10 million dollar mansion, lol.

"While the statement of faith might be in line with Scripture, that doesn't mean his preaching is."

This statement right here you made is the one in need of most contemplation.^

I agree.

How about contemplating one of his messages.

Faith Alone is FAITH ALONE you are saying his preaching puts him and others in jeopardy?

It's more centered on teaching concepts that conflict with Biblical Doctrine.

Do you believe that if your faith is strong enough...you will be healthy and wealthy?

Just answer that question.

Maybe he believes he doesn't have to do anything right so long as he has faith alone in Christ

And is that what Scripture teaches of believers throughout recorded Redemptive History, including this current Age?

I just can't seem to find Paul teaching that things will be peachy if we have enough faith, or that we can speak into existence...anything.

We are under God's will for our lives, and sometimes that will may be unpleasant.

SO if one had the faith Paul had, or Peter had, and landed in jail, or ended up being beheaded, how would that fit into a prosperity gospel?

Lets assume he knows what he does is wrong, when do you tell him?

Same thing I say when I confront anything I see to be in error.

You should be familiar with that by now.

Lets a assume he thinks he is right, When do you let him know he needs YOU, Pope Darrell to look over his shoulder to translate the scripture?

We are not amused.



I think he may be sincere in his view, but then, I think there's a possibility Joseph Smith, Charles Taze Russell, Keeneth Copeland, Benny Hinn, and innumerable other false prophets may have been sincere in their views.

Doesn't mean it isn't harmful, nor does it mean we should overlook error.

Jesus states if there is fault between people the steps to correct it.

First, I do not see Joel as a brother. I am not certain enough of his spiritual condition to make that, ahem, excuse me...leap of faith.

Secondly, we have a pattern of dealing with error in the New Testament, which is a written address to unrelated people who are warned of the error of themselves adopting the false teachings as well as a condemnation (judgment) of the false teachers themselves. Galatians is a good example of that. Paul did not have to give specific names...everyone knew who was in view, the Judaizers.

Third, while I agree direct confrontation is better, the chances of actually being able to talk to such superstars is minimal. I have on many occasions tried to speak with the more notable teachers I feel are in error. They do not give you the chance to speak. Because their arena is threatened. I have written letters, I have spoken on the phone with them (call in programs), but no true conversation. They will not allow it.

And that is how false teachers operate. They heal in tents, but do not go into hospitals.

He has a store that sells DVDs, big deal. I didn't see him sell half his church to Calvinists

You miss the two primary problems. When I went to the site you gave, I went there to produce statements he has made. Nothing there.

Only the statement of faith, which is limited and generic, and does not include what he believes on other issues.

Prosperity preaching is in conflict with the Gospel of Christ. Instead of centering on our need for God, direction is turned to that which is carnal.

If you enjoy his preaching, okay. You consider him a brother, okay. All I can ask you is, how is that working out for you?


God bless.