Is he speaking of the free offer of the gospel or the act of the invitation? I believe the former.
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Altar Calls?
- Thread starter ThankULord
- Start date
Tom Butler
New Member
TomVols pretty much speaks for me on the altar call issue. I'm glad he was careful to say exactly how he conducts invitations and what he says at that point. I'm glad he elaborated because the potential for abuse or misuse of the invitation is extremely high.
It lends itself to manipulation and emotional appeals, and I've seen it done a bunch of times. I think the misuse of invitations, along with the misuse of the Roman Road and Sinners' Prayer have contributed to our bloated church rolls, filled with people whom we'll never see again.
In the Southern Baptist culture of Western Kentucky and West Tennessee where I grew up, invitations were routine and I never gave much thought to whether anything was wrong with it.
Then, I went to Romania on a mission trip. There, I learned that Romanian Baptist churches do not give invitations (following 2-hour services).
When I asked a local pastor about it, he said, "we have come to believe that when the Holy Spirit has touched someone's heart, it is not necessary for us to create an atmosphere in which the Holy Spirit can work. We find that those stirred by the Spirit come to us voluntarily. We can't keep them away."
That got me to thinking about all that we Baptists in America do and say to present the gospel and call people to repentance and faith. I changed my mind about a lot of stuff through that process. It wasn't fun to shed years to tradition not supported by scripture.
It lends itself to manipulation and emotional appeals, and I've seen it done a bunch of times. I think the misuse of invitations, along with the misuse of the Roman Road and Sinners' Prayer have contributed to our bloated church rolls, filled with people whom we'll never see again.
In the Southern Baptist culture of Western Kentucky and West Tennessee where I grew up, invitations were routine and I never gave much thought to whether anything was wrong with it.
Then, I went to Romania on a mission trip. There, I learned that Romanian Baptist churches do not give invitations (following 2-hour services).
When I asked a local pastor about it, he said, "we have come to believe that when the Holy Spirit has touched someone's heart, it is not necessary for us to create an atmosphere in which the Holy Spirit can work. We find that those stirred by the Spirit come to us voluntarily. We can't keep them away."
That got me to thinking about all that we Baptists in America do and say to present the gospel and call people to repentance and faith. I changed my mind about a lot of stuff through that process. It wasn't fun to shed years to tradition not supported by scripture.
I have my doubts about this. I personally have never seen this once in my lifetime. I believe in many many cases the presentation of the gospel has been quite faulty both in alter calls and in public but that is a separate issue. Making an appeal for some one to make a decision and then someone responding to that appeal cannot be legitimately condemned. I can assure you I will never be embarrassed of or ashamed when I stand in front of my Lord because I made an appeal for a decision and a testimony of that decision.
But alter calls are not just about salvation. They are as much for the saved as they are the lost. Mud wrestling has nothing to do with glorifying God in the hearts of people. Alter calls work to facilitate that very thing. Bottom line is God never once said do this this and this in your worship services and do no more. To try to suggest such is to speak where God has not spoken. And of this we need to be careful.
Tom Bryant
Well-Known Member
I may give a public kind of altar call once every 2 months and it is usually aimed at believers to commit to some specific kind of action. But we give a call to action in every service usually in the form of a quiet time after I or whoever spoke has talked about what we are asking.
In terms of a salvation message (and we talk about salvation and being saved in every Sunday morning service), we talk about what the Bible says about how to be saved, and then ask people to trust Jesus as Savior there in their seats. And then to talk to me or a deacon or pastoral staff person after the service. We may even ask them to raise their hand letting us know they have trusted Jesus as savior.
My problem with many altar calls is that they are so terribly general in scope and come close to telling people that you need to come to this altar and trust Jesus to be saved as if the altar is a important, intergal part of the message.
My other problem is with pastors who start counting how many are coming forward as if it is a mark of the fullness of the Spirit (but that's a rant of a different kind)
In terms of a salvation message (and we talk about salvation and being saved in every Sunday morning service), we talk about what the Bible says about how to be saved, and then ask people to trust Jesus as Savior there in their seats. And then to talk to me or a deacon or pastoral staff person after the service. We may even ask them to raise their hand letting us know they have trusted Jesus as savior.
My problem with many altar calls is that they are so terribly general in scope and come close to telling people that you need to come to this altar and trust Jesus to be saved as if the altar is a important, intergal part of the message.
My other problem is with pastors who start counting how many are coming forward as if it is a mark of the fullness of the Spirit (but that's a rant of a different kind)
Tom Butler
New Member
Do you know this preacher? He is the one who is so eager to get a response to the invitation that he will keep broadening the appeal. Nobody comes to "get saved?" Then come for rededication. Or come to pray at the altar, wherever that is. Oh, it's where he is, I forgot. No response? Then it's time to hug your pew-neighbor, or go to someone whose been a blessing and tell them so.
He is convinced that if he can keep the congregation singing long enough, somebody will "step out of their seat" and come.
He is the evangelist who takes a lack of response as a personal affront. And the lack of response is always indicative of something terribly spiritually wrong with the congregation. We are cold, dead, or worse. It has to be that, since everywhere else he's preached, he's had hundreds of "decisions."
Don't get me wrong. The Lord saved me during an invitation. But it was nothing like I just described. I've seen the Holy Spirit convict, draw and save during invitations. It's just that some preachers conduct their invitations as if the Holy Spirit needs help.
Let me hasten to say that I am not talking about my pastor.
He is convinced that if he can keep the congregation singing long enough, somebody will "step out of their seat" and come.
He is the evangelist who takes a lack of response as a personal affront. And the lack of response is always indicative of something terribly spiritually wrong with the congregation. We are cold, dead, or worse. It has to be that, since everywhere else he's preached, he's had hundreds of "decisions."
Don't get me wrong. The Lord saved me during an invitation. But it was nothing like I just described. I've seen the Holy Spirit convict, draw and save during invitations. It's just that some preachers conduct their invitations as if the Holy Spirit needs help.
Let me hasten to say that I am not talking about my pastor.
Edward 1689er
New Member
Did the BIBLE tell us to concoct an invitational system, or just Charles Finney?
Edward 1689er
New Member
OK. Then perhaps you could explain where you got your concoction. D.L. Moody? Billy Sunday? Billy Graham?
All we know for sure is that it DID NOT come from God or His Word.
Are you primitive Baptist?
Edward 1689er
New Member
No. I am a Biblical Baptist . Are you an arminian baptist?
Ok, I concede you win - as soon as you show me where an alter call is prohibited in Scripture?
Salty
Edward 1689er
New Member
OK. Let us take your "logic" and follow it for a moment. You are saying that whatever is not Prohibited in Scripture is permitted. Now that it interesting and of course, opens up a whole host of man-made possibilities!
No, it was not Moody, Sunday, or Graham either that said that "Just As I Am" should be sung every Sunday.
It was Charles Spurgeon:thumbs::
I understand you are a hyper-calvinist which is common among the denomination of Primitive Baptist. My question was not one that should have offended.
Edward 1689er
New Member
First of all, I am NOT a hyper-calvinist. How did you come to that conclusion?
Second, Perhaps you should explain what "YOU" mean by "hyper-calvinist." This will likely be most instructive.
Edward 1689er
New Member
Please explain this false assertion. And also, please understand that it is a serious sin against the Living and True God to Bear False Witness.
Last edited by a moderator:
Tom Bryant
Well-Known Member
Get over yourself. And may God bless you too.
What Tom Said, and he doesn't say things like that very often. In fact it is the first I have seen. Congratulations.:thumbs: