Alternative forms of taxation

[Don]

Right. So we would have no firemen, no policemen, no military, no testing of the airworthiness of aircraft, no air traffic control...... That's my point.

So yur point is that it's okay for 50% of the people to pay for 100% of the people?

 

[FollowTheWay]

So yur point is that it's okay for 50% of the people to pay for 100% of the people?

My original point was and is if we allow people to choose whether or not to pays taxes a majority won't. Would you? Why?

 

[Don]

My original point was and is if we allow people to choose whether or not to pays taxes a majority won't. Would you? Why?

Doesn't matter whether I would or not. As you stated, given the choice, a majority won't. Where do you go from there? I think you're leading toward a social/societal responsibility argument, but....

 

[Reynolds]

Right. So we would have no firemen, no policemen, no military, no testing of the airworthiness of aircraft, no air traffic control...... That's my point.

My point is that I don't need the govt. to test airplanes. I said the Fed govts sole function should be national defense. The rest is the responsibility of the individual states. The fed. govt. should only collect tax for national defense. The max amount should be set by Constitutional ammendment. The states are more directly accountable to the voters than the fed. If California wants to become a socialist paradise and charge 70% income tax, they can. If Ga. wants to charge 10% they can. I won't have to pay for another state's decisions. You will quickly see that the low tax states will boom and the high tax states will bust.

 

[Revmitchell]

You may want to go back and read what I wrote.

Not sure why that needs to be explained.

 

[TCassidy]

no firemen

Private sector hired by local community groups. Those who chose not to pay don't receive the service. Or local residents banding together to fight fires.

no policemen

Private sector hired by local community groups. Those who chose not to pay don't receive the service. Or the community just banding together to police their own neighborhoods.

no military

Citizen militias.

no testing of the airworthiness of aircraft

Private sector. The Airlines hire them and pay for them.

no air traffic control

Private sector. The Airlines hire them and pay them. Same for security.

 

[TCassidy]

My original point was and is if we allow people to choose whether or not to pays taxes a majority won't. Would you? Why?

Wouldn't you? Why not?

 

[Reynolds]

Private sector hired by local community groups. Those who chose not to pay don't receive the service. Or local residents banding together to fight fires.

Private sector hired by local community groups. Those who chose not to pay don't receive the service. Or the community just banding together to police their own neighborhoods.

Citizen militias.

Private sector. The Airlines hire them and pay for them.

Private sector. The Airlines hire them and pay them. Same for security.

I agree fully, except for the military. I believe in today's world, we must have a standing military.

 

[TCassidy]

I agree fully, except for the military. I believe in today's world, we must have a standing military.

The Founders believed that a standing Army was the greatest danger to our liberty there was. I tend to agree.

 

[Revmitchell]

The Founders believed that a standing Army was the greatest danger to our liberty there was. I tend to agree.

I know why they believed that but why do you?

 

[TCassidy]

I know why they believed that but why do you?

Because of the temptation to declare Martial Law and use the standing Army to intimidate the population.

We saw some of that in New Orleans after Katrina. The governor sent in the LA National Guard to confiscate firearms from law abiding citizens. One National Guard Captain was interviewed who said it bothered him because he felt it violated the 2nd and 4th amendments. But he did it anyway.

 

[Reynolds]

The Founders believed that a standing Army was the greatest danger to our liberty there was. I tend to agree.

We didn't have a defacto empire at that time that needed protected. I am not opposed to abandoning Empiralism, but that's another discussion.

 

[FollowTheWay]

Doesn't matter whether I would or not. As you stated, given the choice, a majority won't. Where do you go from there? I think you're leading toward a social/societal responsibility argument, but....

I was simply saying the TCassidy's proposal in post #2 would be unworkable.

 

[FollowTheWay]

My point is that I don't need the govt. to test airplanes. I said the Fed govts sole function should be national defense. The rest is the responsibility of the individual states. The fed. govt. should only collect tax for national defense. The max amount should be set by Constitutional ammendment. The states are more directly accountable to the voters than the fed. If California wants to become a socialist paradise and charge 70% income tax, they can. If Ga. wants to charge 10% they can. I won't have to pay for another state's decisions. You will quickly see that the low tax states will boom and the high tax states will bust.

Who's going to determine whether the aircraft you're boarding has been checked according to a standard maintenance schedule and is safe to fly? You're saying you don't care whether this has been done? In terms of the states paying for most things I doubt you understand that the blue southern states take much more in benefits from the federal government than they contribute through taxes. The reverse is true for the large red states like NY and CA. If the southern states didn't get this support they would have to enact higher tax rates or slump down further than they already are in terms of health, environmental problems, education and supporting the poor. It would be hard to attract the best employees due to a lower quality of life.

 

[FollowTheWay]

Private sector hired by local community groups. Those who chose not to pay don't receive the service. Or local residents banding together to fight fires.

Private sector hired by local community groups. Those who chose not to pay don't receive the service. Or the community just banding together to police their own neighborhoods.

Citizen militias.

Private sector. The Airlines hire them and pay for them.

Private sector. The Airlines hire them and pay them. Same for security.

Are you claiming that a citizen's militia would be adequate against modern high technology armies? Come into the 21st century. Who in your citizen's militia would keep the nuclear arsenal up to date? Who would fly the latest military aircraft? Why would the private sector spend money to check the safety of their individual airplanes? Community vigilante groups instead of trained police? Good luck.

 

[FollowTheWay]

Wouldn't you? Why not?

So you're saying that most people in America would choose to pay taxes for the things provided by government rather than pay none? I think that's ridiculous.

 

[TCassidy]

So you're saying that most people in America would choose to pay taxes for the things provided by government rather than pay none?

No. But most people in the US don't pay taxes now. And by greatly slashing the federal governments needs fewer people giving less money will be sufficient for the services absolutely necessary.

But, of course, I didn't say anything of the sort. I asked you, "Wouldn't you? Why not?" And I can't help but notice you didn't answer the question.

I think that's ridiculous.

So why did you ask it?

 

[TCassidy]

Who in your citizen's militia would keep the nuclear arsenal up to date?

I will. Nukes are pretty simple. And Van can help. He was a nuke.

Who would fly the latest military aircraft?

I will. I was a military pilot.

Why would the private sector spend money to check the safety of their individual airplanes?

The same reason I change the oil in my car?

Community vigilante groups instead of trained police?

Why poison the well with a falsehood? Nobody said anything about vigilantes. Many communities have their own private security forces who are much more professional than government law enforcement, including the community I live in.

 

[Adonia]

My point is that I don't need the govt. to test airplanes. I said the Fed govts sole function should be national defense. The rest is the responsibility of the individual states. The fed. govt. should only collect tax for national defense. The max amount should be set by Constitutional ammendment. The states are more directly accountable to the voters than the fed. If California wants to become a socialist paradise and charge 70% income tax, they can. If Ga. wants to charge 10% they can. I won't have to pay for another state's decisions. You will quickly see that the low tax states will boom and the high tax states will bust.

The Constitution mandates several things for the Federal government to be involved in, not just national defense. There are the Federal Courts; regulating interstate commerce; to regulate commerce with foreign nations;a uniform rule of naturalization; to coin money; and so on and so forth. Anything not listed as a power to the Federal entity is to be the responsibility of the individual states. That's where the local issues come into play like having a police forces, fire departments, government provided healthcare, welfare etc.

 

[Reynolds]

3

Who's going to determine whether the aircraft you're boarding has been checked according to a standard maintenance schedule and is safe to fly? You're saying you don't care whether this has been done? In terms of the states paying for most things I doubt you understand that the blue southern states take much more in benefits from the federal government than they contribute through taxes. The reverse is true for the large red states like NY and CA. If the southern states didn't get this support they would have to enact higher tax rates or slump down further than they already are in terms of health, environmental problems, education and supporting the poor. It would be hard to attract the best employees due to a lower quality of life.

Private companies can inspect their own aircraft. The way you analyze the data on the states is highly subjective.